Got burned - Don't go to Lansing Jet Center.

Jon Kraus wrote:
I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for free. I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants). Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the bill
and vowed to not go there again.
Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Sorry about your experience, glad you got at least partial compensation. I'm
late to the thread, but here's a suggestion: document your experience at
http://www.airnav.com. That's where I look when I want to know what experiences
others have had at a particular FBO. Thanks.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave Butler wrote:
document your
experience at http://www.airnav.com. That's where I look when I want to
know what experiences others have had at a particular FBO. Thanks.

Ummm. Never mind. I see there are no FBOs at LAN, according to airnav.com. I
wonder why that is. I should have looked before I posted.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

MRQB wrote:

I noticed in aviation that you need to be very very careful who you deal
with. There are a lot of scammers out there that like to take advantage of
beginning or new pilots.



I don't find this to be true at all. I have notice that there are many
facilities that cater to larger jet aircraft and have no time for the
single piston engine aircraft. This is largely due to the prime
realestate these facilities operate on and the difficulties in setting
policy that works for both large and small aircraft. The small aircraft
take up almost as much space as a G-V. Yet to a C-152 pilot a $50.00
ramp fee is very discouraging while a G-V it's a very small percentage
of the total cost of the flight. Large Jet centers also offer things
that are really not required for the single engine pilot, like the guy
that comes out with the mini van to pick everyone and there bags up and
bring them into the terminal.

The problem gets even more magnified when one consideres that the range
of single engine aircraft is quite diverse. On one hand you get the
business man in the 1/2 million dollar Bonanza, who expects to get
picked up and has no problem with a $50.00 ramp fee and on the other
extreem you get the student pilot flying a 30 year old C-150 that just
wants gas and a quick turn arround. The C-152 will not even take the 25
gallons minimum fuel often required to wave a ramp fee at some places.

It's very hard for an FBO manager to say lets roll the the guy in the
Bonanza and let the student off, especially if they are both at the
counter at the same time.

John Roncallo

Rick,

I did put an update thread in earlier this afternoon. I called the Jet
Center and talked to the General Manager Joe. He agreed to refund me
$275.00 making the deicing $187.50. Still salty but a lot less so.
I'll chalk it up to a great lesson learned. Thanks for the post.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Rick Durden wrote:

Jon,

Rumor has it that you called Lansing JetCenter and the manager cut
your bill by something more than half. Is that true? If so, it
sounds like it's a pretty stand up organization. Please bring us up
to date.

As I understand it, as part of the purchase of the FBO they do not yet
have control of the big, heated hangar in the building. The current
tenant is moving out soon, so they will after that, and can put
airplanes inside to de-ice. I hear that will drop the cost to under
$100 (which is what I've paid the last couple of times I've had an
airplane put in a heated hangar to be deiced). It sounds as if
service at Lansing will be improving as the new owners get their feet
on the ground.

All the best,
Rick

Jon Kraus wrote in message .. .


I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for free. I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants). Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the bill
and vowed to not go there again.

Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Please remove the "Don't go to the Lansing Jet Center" from your memory
banks. THe General manager is going to refund me $275.00.
Thanks Jay for the advise....

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Jon Kraus wrote:

I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful
hour and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then
return. The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of
icing issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday
dawned much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a
coating of ice that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of
this for free. I wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished
the job and presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my
pants). Hell the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I
paid the bill and vowed to not go there again.
Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Where you at "North of Indy"? I'm out of Seymour (SER)

Fred


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for free. I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants). Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the bill
and vowed to not go there again.

Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Please remove the "Don't go to the Lansing Jet Center" from your memory
banks. THe General manager is going to refund me $275.00.
Thanks Jay for the advise....

Great news, Jon! Now you can buy yourself a new aviation fill in the
blank with the money you just saved! :-)

Good work...!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Yes i have been burned by a flight school and insearch for another flight
school i have found out that they like to take advantage of student pilots
and private pilots for check outs of aircraft.

1, Flight school got rid of their plane 7/8ths the way through my training
prior to getting new one but requires a check out of new plane at my expense
witch is B.S. and i explained that to them.
2, will not check you out in an aircraft unless you have 5 to 7 hours of
instruction with their instructor
3, will not let you fly their plane with your instructor
4, And lots of other stuff i ran in to in my situation like instructors not
wanting to sign you off for check ride without 10 hours of your money in
their pocket.

I already spoke with an attorney and i have grounds to sue not only the
school but the owner of the plane and the flight instructor as well for not
disclosing to me weeks in advance that they were getting rid of the plane
they knew prior to my solo that they would only have the plane to a cretin
date if they would have told me that prior i would not have paid them a
penny more and went some ware else and only been out a few hundred.

And if they don't have the plane by Wednesday and give me the time to get to
ware i was prior to them getting rid of the plane the suite is going forth
with out discrimination on a contingency basis. Yes it may only be $5,000 in
training spent but will cost me another $1k to $3k at another flight school
and $0 for an attorney to handle this case as the school will be responsible
for all attorney costs + damages.

we will all see what happens this type of thing make flying no fun and i
enjoy flying and don't want to see anyone else get taken by this school but
they say they will make it right lets see if they do Wednesday. No call
today from instructor with airplane update as promised
"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
link.net...
Really? I have never felt that someone was even thinking of taking
advantage
of me. Maybe I cast an air of confidence so they don't try it ... naw that
can't be. There certainly are airports and FBOs that are high priced but
It's not directed at inexperienced pilots. They're screwing everybody!!

I doubt that MRQB was the victim of line service soaking him (literally
and
financially). It was either a lack of focus (same technique for big jets
or
small planes) or training (Oh, is that what that garden sprayer is there
for?!). A little inquiry on his part before the deice probably would have
got the service he needed for a reasonable cost. In general, the people at
the Lansing airport, like most others, are fantastic. They do have to make
a
living and, for the most part, charge appropriately.

Travis

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I noticed in aviation that you need to be very very careful who you deal
with. There are a lot of scammers out there that like to take advantage
of
beginning or new pilots.


"Lynne Miller" wrote in message
om...
When we de-ice the jet in Boston, it's about $500. That IS for a
Gulfstream. As such, I would expect yours to be in the $100 to $175
range. The $12.50 per gallon is fair, though. A very good option would
be that the person who sprayed the aircraft did not know how to spray
correctly, and as such used WAY too much glycol. It's been done
before...


Jon Kraus wrote in message
.. .
I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful
hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then
return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of
ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for
free.
I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants).
Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the
bill
and vowed to not go there again.

Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Jon,

Thanks for the update. (When I post something here, it doesn't show
up for several hours, so I think we "crossed in the mail.") I'm very
glad to hear you got the cost knocked down a bunch. I think you may
have hit what is going to be a good FBO before they were able to
correct the holdovers from the bad old days.

All the best,
Rick

Jon Kraus wrote in message .. .
Rick,

I did put an update thread in earlier this afternoon. I called the Jet
Center and talked to the General Manager Joe. He agreed to refund me
$275.00 making the deicing $187.50. Still salty but a lot less so.
I'll chalk it up to a great lesson learned. Thanks for the post.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

Rick Durden wrote:

Jon,

Rumor has it that you called Lansing JetCenter and the manager cut
your bill by something more than half. Is that true? If so, it
sounds like it's a pretty stand up organization. Please bring us up
to date.

As I understand it, as part of the purchase of the FBO they do not yet
have control of the big, heated hangar in the building. The current
tenant is moving out soon, so they will after that, and can put
airplanes inside to de-ice. I hear that will drop the cost to under
$100 (which is what I've paid the last couple of times I've had an
airplane put in a heated hangar to be deiced). It sounds as if
service at Lansing will be improving as the new owners get their feet
on the ground.

All the best,
Rick

Jon Kraus wrote in message .. .


I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful, uneventful hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating of ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for free. I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants). Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the bill
and vowed to not go there again.

Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA

I don't really see anything wrong with any of what you've described. Sure, I
would love to get stuff for free too but everyone has to run their business
to make money. The flight schools may have an interest in the future of
aviation but they are not there as a charity.

Regarding 1) Getting checked out in a different kind of airplane is usually
at your expense. Why shouldn't it be? Note that I said DIFFERENT. If the
school replaces it with the same kind, you shouldn't need a check out at
all. Either way, this isn't taking advantage of newbie pilots. It's
business. If you don't like their policies, go somewhere else. If enough
people pass on their services, they will go out of business or change their
policies.

Regarding 2) In your opening paragraph, you said that you were a student
pilot in search of a new school. Of course they are going to want to spend
some training time with you before signing you off for solo in one of their
planes. Anything else would be irresponsible. While the FAA doesn't care,
their insurance company probably does. They would want one of their
instructors to endorse your logbook again. I don't see this as a scam.

Regarding 3) If you are a student pilot, I would not rent you my airplane
without one of my instructors being with you. I don't know your instructor
either. Why should they? No scam. Just safe business practice.

Regarding 4) Sign you off for a check ride? What kind of a check ride? PP,
IA, Commercial? If you transition to a new instructor, of course he is going
to want to spend some time with you before signing you off. No CFI in their
right mind is going to sign you off based on your say so.

None of this sounds like a scam targeted at inexperienced pilots. It sounds
like reasonable business policies that you don't like. Similarly, your
proposed lawsuit is just what we do not need. Complain a little. See if you
can talk them into a free check out but please do the rest of paying pilots
(as opposed to getting paid) a favor and eat the extra cost to transition to
a new plane.

Travis


"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes i have been burned by a flight school and insearch for another flight
school i have found out that they like to take advantage of student pilots
and private pilots for check outs of aircraft.

1, Flight school got rid of their plane 7/8ths the way through my training
prior to getting new one but requires a check out of new plane at my
expense
witch is B.S. and i explained that to them.
2, will not check you out in an aircraft unless you have 5 to 7 hours of
instruction with their instructor
3, will not let you fly their plane with your instructor
4, And lots of other stuff i ran in to in my situation like instructors
not
wanting to sign you off for check ride without 10 hours of your money in
their pocket.

I already spoke with an attorney and i have grounds to sue not only the
school but the owner of the plane and the flight instructor as well for
not
disclosing to me weeks in advance that they were getting rid of the plane
they knew prior to my solo that they would only have the plane to a cretin
date if they would have told me that prior i would not have paid them a
penny more and went some ware else and only been out a few hundred.

And if they don't have the plane by Wednesday and give me the time to get
to
ware i was prior to them getting rid of the plane the suite is going forth
with out discrimination on a contingency basis. Yes it may only be $5,000
in
training spent but will cost me another $1k to $3k at another flight
school
and $0 for an attorney to handle this case as the school will be
responsible
for all attorney costs + damages.

we will all see what happens this type of thing make flying no fun and i
enjoy flying and don't want to see anyone else get taken by this school
but
they say they will make it right lets see if they do Wednesday. No call
today from instructor with airplane update as promised
"Travis Marlatte" wrote in message
link.net...
Really? I have never felt that someone was even thinking of taking
advantage
of me. Maybe I cast an air of confidence so they don't try it ... naw
that
can't be. There certainly are airports and FBOs that are high priced but
It's not directed at inexperienced pilots. They're screwing everybody!!

I doubt that MRQB was the victim of line service soaking him (literally
and
financially). It was either a lack of focus (same technique for big jets
or
small planes) or training (Oh, is that what that garden sprayer is there
for?!). A little inquiry on his part before the deice probably would
have
got the service he needed for a reasonable cost. In general, the people
at
the Lansing airport, like most others, are fantastic. They do have to
make
a
living and, for the most part, charge appropriately.

Travis

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
I noticed in aviation that you need to be very very careful who you
deal
with. There are a lot of scammers out there that like to take
advantage
of
beginning or new pilots.


"Lynne Miller" wrote in message
om...
When we de-ice the jet in Boston, it's about $500. That IS for a
Gulfstream. As such, I would expect yours to be in the $100 to $175
range. The $12.50 per gallon is fair, though. A very good option
would
be that the person who sprayed the aircraft did not know how to
spray
correctly, and as such used WAY too much glycol. It's been done
before...


Jon Kraus wrote in message
.. .
I decided to fly from my home north of Indianapolis Indiana to
visit
family in Lansing Michigan. My trip up was a beautiful,
uneventful
hour
and a half flight. I was to stay until Friday morning and then
return.
The weather on Friday made it impossible to return because of
icing
issues. No problem better safe than sorry right... Saturday
dawned
much better. Got to the airport to find the plane with a coating
of
ice
that needed to be removed. My FBO at home takes care of this for
free.
I
wasn't expecting it to be free but when they finished the job and
presented me with a $462.50 bill I about lost it (**** my pants).
Hell
the plane rental for the 3 days wasn't even that much. I paid the
bill
and vowed to not go there again.

Any one got any stories of being ripped off? I feel the need to
commiserate... ;-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA