Tight patterns?

"Jeb" wrote in message
om...

if you want more safety keep asshole pilots on the ground


Asshole pilots don't know they're assholes.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

I don't drive a Cessna, I drive a Mooney.


Right. So if the Mooney does fly a pattern similar to the jet's there's no
way they can mix. To keep the same spacing an aircraft half the speed of
another aircraft must fly a pattern half the total length of that
aircraft's.

I'm slowly getting used to flying a tight pattern. My instructor says
that the only time he doesn't slip all the way to the field is at an
airport with which he isn't intimately familiar.

I like the line in "Flight of Passage" where Old Man Buck comes in for
a landing in the J-3:

"High and hot and slipping like crazy."

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base.

Abeam the numbers?

What is your altitude, and what is your altitude when you turn final,
and how far down the field do you land?

Would you do the same at my home field, which is 2800 feet long?


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

i could have been down and rode the lift up and been back down
by the time we finish first run!

I don't think so. My rule of thumb is that a five-minute ski run
equals a ten-minute lift ride. Ten of those and it's time for the
cafeteria.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

What type of air speeds are you talking about? You doing 60kts, they're
doing 100kts? You land and blow a tire, they have to go around? You still
haven't explained how it is safe to cut someone off in the pattern, just
because you don't like the way they are flying?

"Newps" wrote in message
news:ZwGNb.63554$5V2.70987@attbi_s53...
He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:

You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern,
because
you don't like the way they're flying, safe?


"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

i could have been down and rode the lift up and been back down
by the time we finish first run!

I don't think so. My rule of thumb is that a five-minute ski run
equals a ten-minute lift ride. Ten of those and it's time for the
cafeteria.

....or the bar/lounge.

Cub Driver wrote:

Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base.


Abeam the numbers?

Yep, why not? One sweeping constant bank turn to final from downwind.
At paved runways this is what I practice. It's essentially an engine
out manuver.


What is your altitude, and what is your altitude when you turn final,
and how far down the field do you land?

I don't know, it's all done by sight. You know it when it look right.
I get to midfield downwind at 1000 agl. I always try to be at 1000 agl
at midfield. Speed is 80 mph, flaps 20, power 15 inches. As you turn
base flaps go to 30, turning final they go to 40. No pitch changes that
way. Bank is between 20-30 degrees. You roll wings level as you come
over the numbers or maybe within the first coupla hundred feet at about
50 feet agl, the speed should still be about 75 mph. You know you
nailed it when the bank angle stays constant and you roll out over the
runway.



Would you do the same at my home field, which is 2800 feet long?

My home runway is 3800 feet long with a turnoff where another runway
crosses at 2800 feet. I need to add power to get to the turnoff in a
calm wind. If I am landing on a dirt strip I usually practice landing
as short as possible. This means going out to a mile final and slowing
to 55 mph. I aim for the first 50 feet of the runway. With just me and
40 gallons I can get stopped in 450 feet of total runway used in no wind
at a 5000 foot DA. I don't need no stinkin' Cub.

lardsoup wrote:

What type of air speeds are you talking about? You doing 60kts, they're
doing 100kts? You land and blow a tire, they have to go around? You still
haven't explained how it is safe to cut someone off in the pattern, just
because you don't like the way they are flying?

It's not cutting anybody off, poor choice of words. I will not follow
you simply because the first time I came into the pattern I got behind
you. Now if there are others in the pattern I may have to follow you,
but if it's just the two of us or the others are no factor I ain't going
out to a two mile final simply because you do. Airspeed? In a normal
situation I slow to 80 mph IAS by the time I get to midfield downwind.
If anybody lands and blows a tire the rest of the people go around.
What's the point?



"Newps" wrote in message
news:ZwGNb.63554$5V2.70987@attbi_s53...

He's flying to a 2 mile final, I learned that the first time I had to
follow him, won't happen again. I'm on downwind behind him. Abeam the
numbers or there abouts I turn base. When he eventually gets on final
I'm already turning crosswind.

lardsoup wrote:


You're kidding, right? How is cutting someone off in the pattern,

because

you don't like the way they're flying, safe?



"Newps" wrote. I wouldn't hesitate to
cut somebody off if they flew a huge pattern.

"Rick Durden" wrote in message
m...
|
| You've discovered one of the real shortcomings of ab initio flight
| training where they teach students how to become commuter airline
| pilots rather than how to fly. Thus the giant sized patterns. It's a
| true pain in the whatsis.
|

Baloney. The objective of the flight training has nothing to do with it. If
my students want to become commuter airline pilots (and many do), I still
teach them to fly tight patterns. I get nauseous whenever I hear people
talking about instructors and students heading to the airlines instead of
becoming 'real pilots,' whatever that is. As if the airlines want pilots
that don't know "how to fly," as you put it.

I think the problem lies more in two areas: noise abatement, as at our home
field of Tacoma Narrows, and pilot insecurity, where students and/or rusty
pilots are behind the airplane, so they stretch out the pattern to give
themselves more time.