OT (sort of): CBS revisited

You have to draw the line somewhere. Personally, I think there is way
too much bare flesh as it is, for both men and women.

That's fine, if the exposed human body freaks you out, then by all means you
should shield yourself from it. Ironically, it's the religious zealots who
seem to be most afraid of looking at nudes as their bible says man was
created in his likeness - you'd think they would be the ones promoting us to
be in our most god-like state. Then again, what is yet another
contradiction?

Everyone seems
to want to go around dressed as some sort of prostitute. Selling sexy
clothes, jewelry and makeup to three year olds is a multi-billion
dollar industry in this country. Now, that really is embarrassing. We
spend a fortune fighting child porn on the one hand and dress kids as
porn stars on the other. Talk about a mixed message....

Perhaps if children were raised where the body weren't so taboo, people
wouldn't be so jazzed by it. Look at the tribes in Africa, do the kids
giggle and the oldsters scowl when a woman walks by in her natural state?

Children run around blissfully naked until they are taught it is "wrong".

FYI: as a teenager, the easiest chicks were the ones who's parents sent them
to to "girl only" schools. They just couldn't wait to find out what their
parents were "protecting" them from.

Maybe I'm just getting old and grouchy, but I long for the days when
some public decorum was expected. It might have been hypocritical on
the part of some, but at least you knew that there were lines you
shouldn't cross.

Maybe you are simply closed minded.

Anyway, I suppose that now we will see it on TV more and more until it
becomes accepted.

Every TV I've ever seen has a power switch.

Then the yahoos will be complaining that it is
embarrassing that we don't allow hard core porn to be broadcast on
TV. Allen Bloom wrote once wrote that patriots made enormous
sacrifices to protect freedom, the best minds were marshaled to
develop the most advanced technology, loving parents scraped and
sacrificed, and for what? So that some eight year old can listen to a
drag queen sing the praises of onanism and murdering parents on his
own CD player. What will future generations think? Bloom noted that a
society's greatest excesses always seem normal to itself. Perhaps our
television of today will seem as barbaric and uncivilized to some
future generation as the Roman circuses seem to us.

The "for what" is for personal gain, as is most exemplified in the USA.

Certainly most citizens don't give a rat's ass what "future generations"
think (as in saddling them with our debt with our current drunken sailor at
the helm) just as we don't care what our global neighbors think.

I don't think too many species produce slash&gore videos. Cats probably
would if they could, though...

Shooting digitial video without opposable thumbs is a real bitch, ain't it!

I couldn't agree more. I'd rather my teenager would see naked people than
the violent crap on tv every day.



"John Harlow" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:
Now the FCC is investigating CBS for broadcasting obscene material.
BWAHAHAHA!

I guess exposing a breast is obscene,

What the hell is wrong with an entire country where showing a woman's
breast
is "obscene"?

The USA is such the embarassment to me sometimes; lately more often than
not.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
I don't get it. If he doesn't watch that crap, how'd he see the breast in
question?

'Case he was watching the SuperBowl - not MTV or the Victoria's Secret
lingerie show, wingnut! Are you dense or just being silly? I'll explain it
in clearer terms if you really want me to.

And, to be clear, this isn't about an exposed breast. It's about an
attack - right in my living room - on America's version of morality and
witnessed by my little boy.

You are exposing your obtuse ignorance again, Pete. Of COURSE kids care
about that crap!

I didn't say they wouldn't.

Umm, I think your words were "They would not care . . ." but perhaps my
memory is not what it used to be.

I said it's primarily because of the way their
parents react to even the slightest hint of nudity.

No, not the slightest. "Slightest" is perhaps an exposed belly button, a
thong-ish costume on the magician's assistant, an exposed cleavage. This is
typically called "suggestive" in case you are taking notes. That kinda
stuff was unacceptable during my parent's generation but society has evolved
(for good or bad) outside that version of morality.

A boob exposed rather forcefully by another man right on primetime TV is not
a "slight hint" in my Book of Morality.

And the parents present in the room didn't react at all at the time. We
were all too shocked and ****ed off. The halftime show went from bad
(disgracing the US flag) to worse (crotch grabbing) then to shocking
(Janet's goods). It wasn't like we all stood up in unison and spouted Bible
verses. The tiddy was the simply straw on the camel's back. It is only
hindsight that tells me that I should have turned the channel at the
beginning of halftime.

So how many kids do you have, Peter?

One. What's that got to do with anything?

It has absolutely everything to do with it, silly! How old is the kid?
What did he think of the halftime show, Pete? Y'all did watch it, right?

You don't need to have a child to understand
how the way society in general reacts (. . .)

No, of course you don't. But having one sure changes most folks view on
silly things like morality and virtue. You are obviously an exception to
that.

There are lots of societies where an exposed breast is no big deal, and
where children aren't shocked by them. The USA just doesn't happen to be
one of them.

My, that is an absolutely brilliant observation, Peter. The fact that the
United States has a slightly different set of societal rules from other
countries has never occurred to me.

So how would you have felt if ol' Justin and Janet stripped naked and "went
at it" in front of your kid right there on television, Pete? Just curious.

--
Jim Fisher

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
From where do you get the idea that the human body is something of which
we
should be ashamed?

It's hard to believe that folks don't understand the concept of boundaries
and morality . . . But allow me to share a thought or two.

Let's assume you and I are acquaintances for a moment.

Would you be shocked if I knocked on your front door a mooned your daughter
or your wife, Andrew?

Of course you would! You'd probably wanna kick my hairy butt. I couldn't
blame you.

The question is Why would you want to kick my hairy butt? We should be
proud of our bodies, right? Your daughter and wife should not be shocked
but should also respond in kind, right? They are proud of their bodies,
afterall, right?

Wrong, of course, but why is this wrong?

--
Jim Fisher

Jim Fisher wrote:

And the parents present in the room didn't react at all at the time. We
were all too shocked and ****ed off.

Are you kidding? My 17-month old son knows very quickly what I'm feeling.
You think you can sit some older kids in a room with some "shocked and
****ed off" adults and hide the group reaction from the kids? Not
completely impossible, but also not terribly likely.

I didn't see the show myself (football doesn't play well in my home), but
your description is interesting. "Crotch grabbing"? *That* sounds bad.
I've only recently learned to be *very* careful how I hold Alex when he's
in a kicking mood. More lessons in that area he doesn't need.

But that's a "violence" issue; not a "body shame" issue.

Most amazing to me, though, is "disgracing the US flag". I've always
thought that the most jingoistic people were those likely to be avid
watchers of sports. If that's anywhere near the truth, this would be a
particularly stupid show to place before that audience.

I think that marketers have simply lost their minds. In a world of spam,
dinner-time phone solicitation, and pop-under ads, marketers have finally
decided that we're sheep to be shorn, and nothing more.

- Andrew

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
...
"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
I don't get it. If he doesn't watch that crap, how'd he see the breast
in
question?

'Case he was watching the SuperBowl

"That crap" in my post to which you replied referred to the Super Bowl
halftime show. You replied that your son doesn't watch that crap. But
somehow he saw the breast in question. Which means he must have been
watching that crap.

And, to be clear, this isn't about an exposed breast. It's about an
attack - right in my living room - on America's version of morality and
witnessed by my little boy.

There was no attack. 9/11, that's an attack. In any case, the exposed
breast was that least of the entire "attack" you've perceived. If the
exposed breast was an attack, then the entire halftime show is an all-out
war.

You are exposing your obtuse ignorance again, Pete. Of COURSE kids
care
about that crap!

I didn't say they wouldn't.

Umm, I think your words were "They would not care . . ." but perhaps my
memory is not what it used to be.

Note the use of the future perfect tense, to indicate a hypothetical
situation postulated by the following clause beginning with "if". You are
claiming kids will always react in this way, regardless of upbringing, while
my comment was respect to how they would behave given a different
upbringing.

And the parents present in the room didn't react at all at the time. We
were all too shocked and ****ed off. The halftime show went from bad
(disgracing the US flag) to worse (crotch grabbing) then to shocking
(Janet's goods).

And yet, you left it on, and allowed the children to remain in the room and
watch. But you don't get indignant until the breast comes out? Absurd.

In any case, I'm not talking about how you all reacted to this isolated
incident. I'm talking about what you teach your children generally. Years
of attudinal education led up to this and your reaction as well as the kids'
reaction.

It has absolutely everything to do with it, silly! How old is the kid?
What did he think of the halftime show, Pete? Y'all did watch it, right?

No, we don't watch that crap. Please keep up.

No, of course you don't. But having one sure changes most folks view on
silly things like morality and virtue. You are obviously an exception to
that.

If your morality and virtue changed when you had a child, then YOU are the
exception. Most people teach their own children the very same things they
learned. Many people make a show of "cleaning up their act" when they have
kids, but it's just a veneer and their kids still wind up with all the same
character faults that their parents have. They are better at learning than
adults are at hiding.

My, that is an absolutely brilliant observation, Peter. The fact that the
United States has a slightly different set of societal rules from other
countries has never occurred to me.

Well, that explains a lot. Your belief that children simply inherently act
one way or the other, for example, and that how they are raised cannot
affect that. Perhaps you should open your eyes a little more.

So how would you have felt if ol' Justin and Janet stripped naked and
"went
at it" in front of your kid right there on television, Pete? Just
curious.

Aren't you listening? We don't watch that crap.

Pete

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
[...] It is like saying that we should repeal the laws
against rape because there are still people willing to commit murder.

No, it's like saying we should repeal the laws against sex because there are
still people willing to commit murder. Rape is a lot more like murder than
it is like sex.

Pete

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
...
Would you be shocked if I knocked on your front door a mooned your
daughter
or your wife, Andrew?

He would probably just laugh at your stupidity, as would I. Like any of us
care what your ass looks like, or where you choose to go waving it around.

However, your choice of example is certainly illuminating with respect to
your own views. The fact that you think any other random person would be
offended simply illustrates a) your own touchiness regarding the subject and
b) your inability to understand that not everyone sees the world the same
way you do.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote
If your morality and virtue changed when you had a child, then YOU are the
exception. Most people teach their own children the very same things they
learned. Many people make a show of "cleaning up their act" when they
have
kids, but it's just a veneer and their kids still wind up with all the
same
character faults that their parents have. They are better at learning
than
adults are at hiding.


I don't think so. I know many parents, myself included, who changed their
lifestyles when faced with the responsibility of parenthood. I suspect my
parents did the same thing. Just my guess, but I bet a lot of people
experience parenthood as a life-altering event.

Michael