Cross country question? How is it done today?

\
You might consider going to a Cross Country Camp. In a week you have

lectures in the morning from experienced cross country pilots and flying

during the afternoon, sometimes dual. Air Sailing has a good one as do

other glider-ports.

Thanks, have you read the thread?

Tom,

If you can, come to the Champs next June at Caesar Creek Club in Ohio. They will be in June, and you will learn more in a week and a half there than you can learn in 2 years on your own.

It is a friendly site, and there will be people that will be glad to help and mentor you.

Kevin

192

Bob Whelan wrote, On 9/11/2013 8:39 PM:
On 9/11/2013 5:46 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:


Worst case: fly where four maps come together - super hassle trying
keep track
of where I am and what my options are.

Check out Dalhart, TX. Taped-together sectionals definitely recommended,
there. BTDT, using the above system. Worked fine for me.

Reiterating, I recommend using whatever works for Joe Pilot. Being a
simple minded kind of guy, I happen to appreciate simplicity.

Bob - never even mildly lost - W.

I did all that, too, and what a bloody nuisance redoing it every year to
keep the charts up to date. There were other problems: over the years,
I've marked dozens and dozens of uncharted landing places on the maps.
Every map change meant tediously putting all these places on the new
map; with the GPS, I just update the database - easy and accurate. I can
also put comments on each database entry, making it easier to remember
what the field, duster strip, whatever is like.

Circles around airports? That worked when I didn't go very far, but with
my typical 200-350 mile flights - unworkable. Unless it's a super day, I
might target a 20 or more landing places as I work my way around the
task. Putting circles on every point in my database would make the map
almost unusable.

And then there is cost: I fly in 5 to 10 states in a typical season, so
buying new maps every year can equal the cost of a flight computer in
just a few years.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

About a month ago while flying a borrowed glider, my Streak batteries died and I had no GPS to tell me if I could glide back to the home base. I was mortified. Contemplated pulling the dive brakes and landing at the airport I was over, because 30+ miles with no glide computer and a 3k AGL day must be impossible. I am kidding. The reality is that when I have lost GPS, like this flight, I just fly a bit more conservatively because long distances are hard to judge, so I use closer points that are maybe 10-15:1 away to gauge progress.

As you have already discovered, you don't need a GPS or a Chart or a wiz-wheel. You need a sensible head and to pay attention to your surroundings and what the landmarks are doing as you fly towards them.

I can't eyeball a 40:1 glide and know I'm going to make it to that obscured place on the horizon, but I can sure tell that the field 10:1 away is sliding under the nose. I came sailplanes from hang gliders, where you rarely even consider using a chart or relying on a glide computer for glide calculation so concern with the glide computer started out very low for me. I actually fly with two in my glider. An L-Nav and a Dell Streak. They are set up differently and rarely agree perfectly on glide. That's useful since the Streak is my pessimist and the L-Nav is my optimist

Definitely get yourself a GPS. If nothing else, being able to review your logs in See You is an amazing tool for learning from your own decisions. You'll also gain an appreciation for the performance or lack thereof of your glider as you can see in real-time how you are doing towards a fixed point..

I do find that the GPS enables me to think farther ahead. If I'm 2000 above a conservative glide to an airport, I'm not spending as much time looking at closer alternatives. This is probably more of a high-performance glider issue than a 1-26 issue, but freeing processor cycles for more important activities is a good thing. If you think you can reach Airport X, and you have 5 landable fields in between you and Airport X, you'll be more comfortably focusing on the clouds or looking for birds or other indicators of lift. You get to focus on the soaring more as you've got an easily monitored data point to gauge your progress.

Sounds like you are doing it right though. Head out of the cockpit, field to field. Fun stuff. Don't be afraid to augment that judgement with tools that we have available.






On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:22:16 AM UTC-7, flgliderpilot wrote:
I am fairly green had my PGL for about 3 years now.



Been venturing into cross country, have done my first flight out to another airport, and last weekend, an out to that airport and return, about 30 miles round trip (in a 1-26, no ridges, it's all flat Florida). No it's not very far, but at least I am not just circling the airport for hours, and my enjoyment of soaring has been taken to a new level.



However, I was told recently by an older experienced pilot that using a GPS is "not the correct way to do it". Instead I should be thinking "can I get there... now can I get there... can I get there...". I understand this ideology, but I am pretty sure nearly everyone is using GPS these days.



So, does this mean I should not use modern navigation technology? I know how to plot a cross country flight on paper of course, and required altitudes to the next safe landing area.



Does this mean I should I actually be drawing circles on charts, carrying a slide ruler to calculate arrival height at various distances, and mechanically doing everything my GPS is doing for me? This means I am not looking for traffic, or thermalling but instead flipping through charts and playing with a slide ruler or E6B, and my eyes are not outside the canopy.



Anyway, please enlighten a new pilot, I am listening intently. if I should not be using a GPS at this point I'll go without.



Thanks

Tom

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 10:22:16 AM UTC-4, flgliderpilot wrote:
I am fairly green had my PGL for about 3 years now.



Been venturing into cross country, have done my first flight out to another airport, and last weekend, an out to that airport and return, about 30 miles round trip (in a 1-26, no ridges, it's all flat Florida). No it's not very far, but at least I am not just circling the airport for hours, and my enjoyment of soaring has been taken to a new level.



However, I was told recently by an older experienced pilot that using a GPS is "not the correct way to do it". Instead I should be thinking "can I get there... now can I get there... can I get there...". I understand this ideology, but I am pretty sure nearly everyone is using GPS these days.



So, does this mean I should not use modern navigation technology? I know how to plot a cross country flight on paper of course, and required altitudes to the next safe landing area.



Does this mean I should I actually be drawing circles on charts, carrying a slide ruler to calculate arrival height at various distances, and mechanically doing everything my GPS is doing for me? This means I am not looking for traffic, or thermalling but instead flipping through charts and playing with a slide ruler or E6B, and my eyes are not outside the canopy.



Anyway, please enlighten a new pilot, I am listening intently. if I should not be using a GPS at this point I'll go without.



Thanks

Tom

honest and humble opinion: if you want to fly with GPS that's fine.In fact as your confidence and skills improve, and as your flights lengthen in duration and distance, i'd recommend it.

however: there is something to be said for learning the basic "manual" navigation skills as building blocks. in any case you should have a map no matter what, and in the event that you're flying with GPS and everything goes "lights out", you should have the confidence to continue on or head home with just a map.

but there is no one right answer. some people like to fly with maps, some like GPS.

Years ago I learned that, for a 40ish to 1 ship, you could hold out two
fingers at arm's length such that the top of the fingers rests on the under
side of the horizon. Anything visible below the second finger is reachable
at your present altitude. Give it a try! I suppose 3 fingers would work
just fine for a 1-26.


"Morgan" wrote in message
...
About a month ago while flying a borrowed glider, my Streak batteries died
and I had no GPS to tell me if I could glide back to the home base. I was
mortified. Contemplated pulling the dive brakes and landing at the airport
I was over, because 30+ miles with no glide computer and a 3k AGL day must
be impossible. I am kidding. The reality is that when I have lost GPS,
like this flight, I just fly a bit more conservatively because long
distances are hard to judge, so I use closer points that are maybe 10-15:1
away to gauge progress.

As you have already discovered, you don't need a GPS or a Chart or a
wiz-wheel. You need a sensible head and to pay attention to your
surroundings and what the landmarks are doing as you fly towards them.

I can't eyeball a 40:1 glide and know I'm going to make it to that obscured
place on the horizon, but I can sure tell that the field 10:1 away is
sliding under the nose. I came sailplanes from hang gliders, where you
rarely even consider using a chart or relying on a glide computer for glide
calculation so concern with the glide computer started out very low for me.
I actually fly with two in my glider. An L-Nav and a Dell Streak. They are
set up differently and rarely agree perfectly on glide. That's useful since
the Streak is my pessimist and the L-Nav is my optimist

Definitely get yourself a GPS. If nothing else, being able to review your
logs in See You is an amazing tool for learning from your own decisions.
You'll also gain an appreciation for the performance or lack thereof of your
glider as you can see in real-time how you are doing towards a fixed point.

I do find that the GPS enables me to think farther ahead. If I'm 2000 above
a conservative glide to an airport, I'm not spending as much time looking at
closer alternatives. This is probably more of a high-performance glider
issue than a 1-26 issue, but freeing processor cycles for more important
activities is a good thing. If you think you can reach Airport X, and you
have 5 landable fields in between you and Airport X, you'll be more
comfortably focusing on the clouds or looking for birds or other indicators
of lift. You get to focus on the soaring more as you've got an easily
monitored data point to gauge your progress.

Sounds like you are doing it right though. Head out of the cockpit, field
to field. Fun stuff. Don't be afraid to augment that judgement with tools
that we have available.






On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:22:16 AM UTC-7, flgliderpilot wrote:
I am fairly green had my PGL for about 3 years now.



Been venturing into cross country, have done my first flight out to
another airport, and last weekend, an out to that airport and return,
about 30 miles round trip (in a 1-26, no ridges, it's all flat Florida).
No it's not very far, but at least I am not just circling the airport for
hours, and my enjoyment of soaring has been taken to a new level.



However, I was told recently by an older experienced pilot that using a
GPS is "not the correct way to do it". Instead I should be thinking "can
I get there... now can I get there... can I get there...". I understand
this ideology, but I am pretty sure nearly everyone is using GPS these
days.



So, does this mean I should not use modern navigation technology? I know
how to plot a cross country flight on paper of course, and required
altitudes to the next safe landing area.



Does this mean I should I actually be drawing circles on charts, carrying
a slide ruler to calculate arrival height at various distances, and
mechanically doing everything my GPS is doing for me? This means I am not
looking for traffic, or thermalling but instead flipping through charts
and playing with a slide ruler or E6B, and my eyes are not outside the
canopy.



Anyway, please enlighten a new pilot, I am listening intently. if I
should not be using a GPS at this point I'll go without.



Thanks

Tom

On Friday, September 13, 2013 1:03:59 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Years ago I learned that, for a 40ish to 1 ship, you could hold out two

fingers at arm's length such that the top of the fingers rests on the under

side of the horizon. Anything visible below the second finger is reachable

at your present altitude. Give it a try! I suppose 3 fingers would work

just fine for a 1-26.





"Morgan" wrote in message

...

About a month ago while flying a borrowed glider, my Streak batteries died

and I had no GPS to tell me if I could glide back to the home base. I was

mortified. Contemplated pulling the dive brakes and landing at the airport

I was over, because 30+ miles with no glide computer and a 3k AGL day must

be impossible. I am kidding. The reality is that when I have lost GPS,

like this flight, I just fly a bit more conservatively because long

distances are hard to judge, so I use closer points that are maybe 10-15:1

away to gauge progress.



As you have already discovered, you don't need a GPS or a Chart or a

wiz-wheel. You need a sensible head and to pay attention to your

surroundings and what the landmarks are doing as you fly towards them.



I can't eyeball a 40:1 glide and know I'm going to make it to that obscured

place on the horizon, but I can sure tell that the field 10:1 away is

sliding under the nose. I came sailplanes from hang gliders, where you

rarely even consider using a chart or relying on a glide computer for glide

calculation so concern with the glide computer started out very low for me.

I actually fly with two in my glider. An L-Nav and a Dell Streak. They are

set up differently and rarely agree perfectly on glide. That's useful since

the Streak is my pessimist and the L-Nav is my optimist



Definitely get yourself a GPS. If nothing else, being able to review your

logs in See You is an amazing tool for learning from your own decisions.

You'll also gain an appreciation for the performance or lack thereof of your

glider as you can see in real-time how you are doing towards a fixed point.

On Friday, September 13, 2013 2:03:59 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Years ago I learned that, for a 40ish to 1 ship, you could hold out two

fingers at arm's length such that the top of the fingers rests on the under

side of the horizon. Anything visible below the second finger is reachable

at your present altitude. Give it a try! I suppose 3 fingers would work

just fine for a 1-26.

Great tip, but it's probably 4 fingers for a 1-26, and another finger for a slight head wind.

I'll try it!

Originally Posted by Daniel Sazhin

Because I have come across this issue a second time, being a Brooklyn
native, I must step in and educate the proper way to say "New Yorker." It
isn't New Yakker.. it's "New Yokaah!"

Cheers,
Daniel

At 23:58 11 September 2013, Walt Connelly wrote:

Tom, just remember if you land in a farmers field here is what you do.
As he approaches in his Pick em up truck, get down on your knees, close
your eyes, clasp your hands in front of you and say, "heavenly father, I
thank you for having this wonderful farmer's field here for me to land
in. I'm sorry if I scared his prized Hereford bull, I didn't mean to.
I'm sure my insurance company will pay for any damages, AMEN." Also
remember that if he is wearing a cowboy hat he is a Cracker, a baseball
cap means he is a red neck and no hat means he is from New York and
doesn't want to look like a Cracker or Red Neck. Call me if it's a
Cracker or Red Neck, I can deal with them for you....a New Yakker and
you are on your own.

Walt




--
Walt Connelly

I stand corrected.

Walt

I have had to use my map a few times already when the GPS provided erroneous data, so I only trust it when it sounds like it's being honest with me.

So yes, I use a map also when I need to.