Almost saw someone crash

I wonder if there's an analogy to the drunk driver in this situation?
It's become quite acceptable (and even *strongly suggested*) that
keys are taken away from someone who's impaired by alcohol, or that
a cab is called. Could the same be applied to someone attempting
to fly who is impaired by alcohol?

I realize in the situation initially reported there didn't seem to
be alcohol (or drugs) involved. But what would you do if you
saw someone who was impaired, going to go fly?

And remember -- the car keys situation is a local issue. Flying drunk
is a Federal issue in the US. Don't know about other countries.

It's become quite acceptable (and even *strongly suggested*) that
keys are taken away from someone who's impaired by alcohol


Taken by whom? This is a slippery slope, especially in aviation. Letting
others stop you because they think you're inadequate to the task (whether by
virtue of being drunk, stupid, inexperienced for the conditions, whatever)
erodes the basic tenets of self-responsibility, which is one of the big
differences between aviation and driving. I wouldn't want that to happen.

Jose


--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 23:35:04 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Frode Berg wrote:

Sure, someone will get upset, ...

So what? Do you know this person? What do you care what she thinks about you?

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.


I agree with the spirit of your statement, but it does matter a
little...If you're hoping to make a difference s/he has to think
enough of you to value the input you have provided.

As long as you don't approach the person like a screaming lunatic
(hopefully) you've got a shot at succeeding.

z

On Sat, 22 May 2004 at 12:49:50 in message
, Viperdoc
wrote:

After about fifteen minutes of this, we all heard a plane do a low approach
over the airport, and we ran to the window to take a look. At this point it
was clearly lower than the published minimums for the lowest approach, and
we were all concerned about a pilot flying around in such terrible weather.
We got a glimpse of a Bonanza, which then disappeared. I tuned 121.5 on my
radios as well as the CTAF, and heard the FBO call the pilot and ask if they
needed assistance. There were no calls or answers from the Bonanza, and we
feared the worst, waiting for an ELT signal. However, after a few minutes
the plane noises returned and the Bonanza landed and taxied to the FBO.

This reminded me of a story of my Father's. Not an active service pilot,
but he was nevertheless flying as an RAF test pilot and an RAF
Maintenance Unit in England in the early part of World War 2. Most of
his flying was very short flights and with rapid changes of type of
aircraft.

One day the weather closed in and the pilots decided that it was two bad
for flying. They were sitting in the control tower when they heard a
Spitfire near the field. They could not see it but it appeared to have
landed and soon they saw it taxing out of the murk. It stopped near the
control tower and the canopy came back. The pilot removed his flying
helmet and they were amazed to see long blonde hair. It was a young
woman of the A.T.A. (Air Transport Auxiliary) and my father and his
colleagues felt embarrassed by the amazing performance of this young
woman.

How times have changed. These men and women of the A.T.A. Delivered
aircraft from the factories to squadrons and to maintenance units. Not
quite a fair comparison as there was no suggestion of thunderstorms -
just poor visibility.

At this stage of an aircraft's service life they usually had no radios
fitted and navigational aids were minimal.
--
David CL Francis

How times have changed.

There is a fine line between utter and complete devotion to duty, and
insanity.

During wartime her behavior was elevated to the status of "courageous" --
but in peacetime it's just plain nuts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

David CL Francis wrote:

How times have changed. These men and women of the A.T.A. Delivered
aircraft from the factories to squadrons and to maintenance units. Not
quite a fair comparison as there was no suggestion of thunderstorms -
just poor visibility.

That was bad enough. Remember that John Magee, the author of "High Flight,"
actually died not in combat, but in a midair collision with another British
plane during low vis in quiet skies.


All the best,


David

On Sun, 23 May 2004 at 11:28:00 in message
ogers.com, David
Megginson wrote:
David CL Francis wrote:

How times have changed. These men and women of the A.T.A. Delivered
aircraft from the factories to squadrons and to maintenance units. Not
quite a fair comparison as there was no suggestion of thunderstorms -
just poor visibility.

That was bad enough. Remember that John Magee, the author of "High
Flight," actually died not in combat, but in a midair collision with
another British plane during low vis in quiet skies.

Good point. I believe there are some 600 known crash sites in the North
of England where aircraft are believed to have flown into high ground
during WW2. Around 1 in 5 Spitfire and Hurricane losses were due to
accidents and not enemy action if my memory is correct.

From one David to another
--
David CL Francis

David CL Francis wrote:

Good point. I believe there are some 600 known crash sites in the North
of England where aircraft are believed to have flown into high ground
during WW2. Around 1 in 5 Spitfire and Hurricane losses were due to
accidents and not enemy action if my memory is correct.

I read somewhere about bomber squadrons forming up in low vis before a raid.
Often the crews wouldn't see the conflicting plane, but they'd feel the
wake turbulence and then realized that they'd survived another near miss.


All the best,


David

On Mon, 24 May 2004 19:46:05 GMT, David Megginson
wrote:

I read somewhere about bomber squadrons forming up in low vis before a raid.
Often the crews wouldn't see the conflicting plane, but they'd feel the
wake turbulence and then realized that they'd survived another near miss.

I don't think they formed up in the clouds Dave. The British would
take off and basically head for the target in one huge stream. Bomber
Command accepted that some midair collisions would occur but the main
point was to pull the bombers together in a swarm to overwhelm the
fighter defenses by pushing too many targets for them to track
efficiently. There weren't that many German night fighters so if the
entire bomber swarm passed through the sector together, the night
fighter would not get an opportunity to attack multiple targets. They
basically took off, headed for an assembly point and turned for the
target when they reached it.

The Americans formed up during the day, often climbing out through
dense cloud (bomber pilots often said "when heading back to base, head
for the biggest cloud in the sky, England will be below it) and
breaking out on top to circle for an hour before forming up in wings
and groups all the time gaining height before heading towards their
target of the day. Sometimes bad things happened in the clouds,
sometimes bad things happened in the clear. I have a book at home
that has a photo of a group of B-24's headed straight for the nose of
the B-17 from where the photo was taken. Someone was out of place in
the crowded sky and two entire squadrons of heavy bombers passed right
through each other head on. No collisions that time, but there must
have been a few tightly puckered pilots.

Corky Scott

"David Megginson" wrote in message
. rogers.com...
I read somewhere about bomber squadrons forming up in low vis before a
raid.
Often the crews wouldn't see the conflicting plane, but they'd feel the
wake turbulence and then realized that they'd survived another near miss.

Time Team (programme on TV here in the UK) had an archeological
dig of a site where two B17s collided in cloud...or rather of where they
ended up in the ground.

http://www.channel4.com/history/time...e/reedham.html

Paul