pan pan pan

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard
call.

But what is the standard call? Everything I've read up to this thread
has told me to say "I'm declaring an emergency." Are we now suggesting
it should be "Pan Pan"? (In Britain, evidently! But in the U.S.?)

AIM 6-3-2a3:
Transmit a distress or urgency message consisting of as many as necessary of
the following elements, preferably in the order listed:
(a) If distress, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAY-DAY; if urgency, PAN-PAN, PAN-PAN,
PAN-PAN.
(b) Name of station addressed.
(c) Aircraft identification and type.
(d) Nature of distress or urgency.
....

--Gary

There was an incident in sweden where the pilot had an ill passenger and
called out to the tower at landvetter (in gothenburg) "pan-pan, pan-pan,
pan-pan". After a few moments silence came a bewildered controller
"er... we don't have that expression here at landvetter"

So much for that huh... By the way, from what we were taught, it's
actually a complete word pan-pan, just like may-day if you will. Saying
pan pan pan would be like saying maydaymay I guess. Never heard it used
or used it myself so I'm not sure.


Newps wrote:

"PS2727" wrote in message
...

I hadn't thought of it that way. My point is that once the pan went out
everyone was on the same page. Perhaps the controllers are told to be

alert for

someone who has a potential problem but hesitates in declaring the

emergency.

If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard

call.

You'll never hear Pan in the US, it's a ridiculous phrase. The pilot will
simply tell you his problem, many times saying that it isn't an emergency.
Doesn't matter, I'm declaring it an emergency and the trucks will be
standing by.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:55:17 -0500, "Bill Denton"
wrote:

SECURITE (I think this is the correct word) - This is a warning broadcast to
others from a watercraft or aircraft; sharks in an area or a sudden
emergency closure of an airport.

Yes, that's the word. (Pronounced secure-i-tay). Thiis is the first
time I have ever seen an aviation usage for the word.

I wonder if Pan Pan and Securite are more often used in Europe? Like
graphic road signs, they'd be more useful than a statement like "I'm
declaring an emergency."

And I wonder if the TWA? pilot who said "I'm declaring Pan Pan" wasn't
simply covering both bases, the "I'm declaring" for any American
listener and "Pan Pan" for the Canadians?
all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:07:35 -0400, Magnus wrote:

There was an incident in sweden where the pilot had an ill passenger and
called out to the tower at landvetter (in gothenburg) "pan-pan, pan-pan,
pan-pan". After a few moments silence came a bewildered controller
"er... we don't have that expression here at landvetter"

So much for that huh...

Yes. Sigh...

By the way, from what we were taught, it's
actually a complete word pan-pan, just like may-day if you will. Saying
pan pan pan would be like saying maydaymay I guess. Never heard it used
or used it myself so I'm not sure.

This is what my daughter tells me also. (She's off to Boston today to
be tested for the continuation of her 100-ton master's license. My
little girl!)



all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

"Kevin Darling" wrote in message
m...
"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
. ..
http://www.nathangb.com/wingfiles/files/4P192.pdf

Interesting. So the Columbian crash from lack of fuel affected the UK
and US totally differently.

The UK ATC wants pilots to be explicit, and won't treat it as an
emergency unless declared as so. But isn't that what caused the
Columbian accident?

I don't think it's the case that controllers "won't" treat it as an
emergency, it tells pilots to be specific, use the standard call
then it can't be treated any other way. The text says that the
controlled can ask the pilot "Do you wish to declare an
emergency?".

In the UK for GA, we have certain RT procedures which are
outlined in the CAA publication CAP413.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF
If you look at Chapter 8, Emergencies, section 1.5, it gives
the phraseology and information for an emergency call. On the
PPL RT exam a large (disproportionate) number of marks are
given for getting the emergency call right.

Paul

'Mayday' is a broadcast, not addressed to any specific station (from the
French, "M'aidez" I expect = "Help me") and is repeated twice followed by
the callsign 3 times.

"Pan, pan, pan" is notification of a high priority transmission (possibly
abbreviated 'PANic'?) addressed to a SPECIFIC station (eg, tower) signifying
what follows is urgent and important - eg, report of a road accident you've
just spotted, or a herd of elephants about to cross a busy runway. Your
callsign is not repeated and the 'pan' label simply is used to separate the
transmission from the routine.

"Newps" wrote in message ...
"PS2727" wrote in message
...
I hadn't thought of it that way. My point is that once the pan went out
everyone was on the same page. Perhaps the controllers are told to be
alert for
someone who has a potential problem but hesitates in declaring the
emergency.
If I ever need priority I'll have no problem sending out the standard
call.

You'll never hear Pan in the US, it's a ridiculous phrase. The pilot will
simply tell you his problem, many times saying that it isn't an emergency.
Doesn't matter, I'm declaring it an emergency and the trucks will be
standing by.

Perhaps you won't hear it much here in the USA where you seldom are
out of radio range, or out of range of a recognized landing strip or
airport. If you fly outside the USA which seems unlikely, you can
easily find yourself more than 100 miles from any safe landing area
let alone someplace with emergency equipment standing by. Perhaps the
US pilots are just too accustomed to having it so good and
particularly in General Aviation.
A lot of my flight time is in remote areas of the world where it was
nice to be able to hear someone on the radio!

"RT" wrote in message
...
| 'Mayday' is a broadcast, not addressed to any specific station (from the
| French, "M'aidez" I expect = "Help me") and is repeated twice followed by
| the callsign 3 times.
|
| "Pan, pan, pan" is notification of a high priority transmission (possibly
| abbreviated 'PANic'?) addressed to a SPECIFIC station (eg, tower)
signifying
| what follows is urgent and important - eg, report of a road accident
you've
| just spotted, or a herd of elephants about to cross a busy runway. Your
| callsign is not repeated and the 'pan' label simply is used to separate
the
| transmission from the routine.

And here I thought "pan pan pan" also derived from French, from "pain", as
in

"Help I'm being hit over the head with a baguette. It's not an emergency
yet, but it will be when it goes stale in an hour or so"

(sorry, I probably should have resisted)

On 18 Jun 2004 08:28:23 -0700, (SelwayKid) wrote:

A lot of my flight time is in remote areas of the world where it was
nice to be able to hear someone on the radio!

And have you heard a Pan Pan call?

Just curious.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 00:10:17 +1000, "RT"
wrote:

"Pan, pan, pan" is notification of a high priority transmission (possibly
abbreviated 'PANic'?)

As posted, pan is from the French like all these distress calls.

Panne = breakdown, according to the Oxford English Dictionary. In
maritime use, it is supposed to be used when a vessel requires
assistance due to a sick or injured passenger. So says my daughter the
sailor.

(She got the renewal on her 100-ton license, BTW, from the same guy
who tested her 14 years ago. When she got the license, she'd never
docked a boat. The next week she set sail to Australia, and arrived
there still without ever having docked the boat.)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org