Run In With Mr. Edwards

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news91Wc.21556$9d6.17529@attbi_s54...
[...] If this is what we have to look forward to under a
Kerry/Edwards presidency, I fear the worst is yet to come.

Of all the idiotic posts you've made, this is certainly one of them.

Couldn't you at least *pretend* to hide your prejudice? Do you have even a
shred of evidence that the exact same thing wouldn't have happened to you
had Dick Cheney showed up at the same airport in 1999? No, of course not.

Jay Honeck wrote:


(BTW: If you've never seen the Iowa State Fair, it's worth the trip. It's
the biggest fair in America, apparently, and it is so chock-full of
traditional Americana that I felt like a kid again.

Iowa always claims this but in reality they are a distant second to the
Minnesota State Fair. Take a trip to a real fair Jay, it starts this
Thursday and continues thru Labor Day. Land at STP and you'll be
minutes away from heaven.


http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4939996.html

Remember Jay, they aren't protecting Edwards. They are protecting their
jobs. The reason they didn't let you on the ramp had nothing to do with
whether they thought you were a threat. The real reason is so that they
won't be standing ramrod straight on the carpet later explaining to their
superior why you and your kids were running around on the ramp.

Don't waste your breath about how you are being inconvenienced or even
endangered. No one with the kind of power they have will ever give a flying
f__k. Prior to 9/11 our society understood better than most, and the
conservatives best of all, why government power should be minimized. Now,
that's out the window and the conservatives seem to have become the
strongest proponents of unlimited governmental power.

A preview of this hysteria was the onset of the war on drugs. Friend of
mine spent 45 minutes lying face down while his sailboat was searched by the
Coast Guard as the tide carried them among the rocks and shoals in a very
tricky part of Maine. This was before electronic navigation when everything
depended on dead reckoning pilotage and keeping track of where you are.
When the Coast Guard finally let he and his wife up, the sun had gone down
and they didn't have a clue where they were. They asked for a position and
were told that the Coast Guard couldn't give them one because of the
liability if they subsequently ran aground. It was too deep to anchor. The
Coast Guard could not give them a tow because there was no imminent danger.
They would call a private salvor who would arrive in about six hours at a
cost of several thousand dollars. No, they they couldn't stand by because
they had to hassle more yachtsmen. Good night, have a pleasant evening.

--

Roger Long

C J Campbell wrote:

I sincerely hope not. They should have shot the lying, treasonous war
criminal a long time ago. He betrayed his country, he betrayed
everyone who
served in Vietnam, he met with enemy leaders, he deliberately killed
babies
and then justified by claiming in Congressional testimony that
everyone else
was doing it, he left his one of his own men for dead while fleeing
from an
imaginary attack and only turned around when shamed into it, two of
his
Purple Hearts are for self inflicted wounds, he disgraced the medals
that he
is now so proud of, and he plotted to kill United States senators. He
does
not deny any of this; instead he resorts to personal attacks against
those
who are exposing the truth about him. If personal attacks do not
silence his
enemies, he resorts to threats of violence and lawsuits, which shows
what he
thinks of freedom of speech.

Now CJ, be fair. There are good indications that one of those
self-inflicted wounds was NOT intentional.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure that the decision to provide security to candidates (not
senators per se) lies with the Secret Service and could not be refused.

SS protection can be refused. Nixon, for example, released the SS several
years after he resigned. I'm not sure if he retained private bodyguards, or
whether he just gave up on having bodyguards altoghether, but it does show
that a "principal" can tell the SS to get lost if he or she wants to.

But if I were the "principal", I certainly wouldn't want to. Both Kerry and
Edwards are entitled to SS protection, and they are wisely making use of it.
I'm reasonably sure that Edwards is now entitled to make use of any security
arrangement that Cheney has at his disposal. To be sure, Vice-Presidential
TFRs aren't anything close to the pain in the butt that Presidential ones
are, but even a baby-TFR -- which Edwards certainly could have had if his
people had asked for it -- would have been enough to ruin Jay's whole trip.
So my own personal take on Jay's (very well-written) story is that we should
be thankful that Kerry-Edwards is at least holding off on releasing the TFR
hounds right now. An hour's wait in the FBO lobby is a pain, but not nearly
as painful as having to cancel the entire trip.

If I had been in your shoes, Jay, my own reaction would have been to treat
the security people with over-the-top politenes and kid gloves. As a
resident of a swing-state (Pennsylvania), I can personally attest to how
over-blown presidential security has gotten and how totally disruptive it
can be to our day-to-day lives. On July 4th, of all days, I couldn't even
walk down a street three blocks from a scheduled campaign event, despite the
fact that I had tickets to and was on my way to attending that very same
event. Heck, the event even was due to start for another two hours! What
on earth was I, with a 3-year-old in tow, going to do three blocks away, two
hours before the speech that would put anyone in any danger whatsoever? So
instead my entire family, including my visibly pregnant wife, had to walk
several blocks out of our way for no good reason at all. I think it's gone
way too far.

But I also suspect that everytime the SS encounters an irate pilot in an
FBO, it just feeds their justification mill for keeping all these "crazy
people in little planes" as far away as possible from the people they are
protecting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you went nutso on
the SS in the FBO lobby. I'm just saying that they have a certain
pre-conceived mindset concerning GA, and that anything you did short of meek
and apologetic acceptance is quite likely to be twitsted into a
justification of this misbegotten mindset.


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Only if it is the Democrat. If it is the Republican, stand by for flowers
and
poetry.

Hee hee! Ahem, not true.

Actually, the VERY NEXT DAY I was in Green Bay, WI, when Senator Herb Kohl
(D-WI) arrived at the FBO. (True, another Democrat, but that's completely
beside the point.)

He had no security at all, and precisely one lady waiting for him -- who
took SERIOUS umbrage with me railing on about Senator Edwards in particular,
and Congress in general, after my nasty little encounter with the Edward
Campaign the day before in Des Moines.

When I spouted that line about how "Edwards ain't NOTHING worth
protecting -- yet" she puffed up as big as a turkey and haughtily pronounced
"WELL, he IS a sitting U.S. Senator...!"

To which I caustically responded "...Which means he works for THE PEOPLE,
right?"

She thereupon fell completely silent, and turned away.

Honestly, the political class -- on BOTH sides of the aisle -- are getting
waay too big for their britches. In this regard Martin Hotze is absolutely,
100% correct when he says "They are POLITICIANS, for chrissakes, and they're
a dime a dozen."

(Did hell just freeze over? I just agreed with Martin on something! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Couldn't you or Mary just do three quick patterns (full-stop) and be legal
to fly at night?

Sure, but that would be terribly impractical.

It was rapidly approaching dusk, with no known end to our delay. To get
night current means waiting until complete darkness, and doing 3 landings.
This would have meant either waiting until legal darkness in Des Moines, or
stopping somewhere along the way home.

With the kids along, neither choice was good. In practice, we probably
would have just stayed the night, rather than screwing around with it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, weren't you the one who said your life had not changed because of
9/11
paranoia?

No my LIFESTYLE has not changed. (It was Eduardo's statement that the "new
American lifestyle sucks" that I was responding to...)

In the overall scheme of things, my delay in DSM was a minor inconvenience.
But it was a stupid, pointless delay nonetheless, and one that deserves our
attention.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message
k.net...
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure that the decision to provide security to candidates (not
senators per se) lies with the Secret Service and could not be refused.

SS protection can be refused. Nixon, for example, released the SS several
years after he resigned. I'm not sure if he retained private bodyguards,
or
whether he just gave up on having bodyguards altoghether, but it does show
that a "principal" can tell the SS to get lost if he or she wants to.

But if I were the "principal", I certainly wouldn't want to. Both Kerry
and
Edwards are entitled to SS protection, and they are wisely making use of
it.
I'm reasonably sure that Edwards is now entitled to make use of any
security
arrangement that Cheney has at his disposal. To be sure,
Vice-Presidential
TFRs aren't anything close to the pain in the butt that Presidential ones
are, but even a baby-TFR -- which Edwards certainly could have had if his
people had asked for it -- would have been enough to ruin Jay's whole
trip.
So my own personal take on Jay's (very well-written) story is that we
should
be thankful that Kerry-Edwards is at least holding off on releasing the
TFR
hounds right now. An hour's wait in the FBO lobby is a pain, but not
nearly
as painful as having to cancel the entire trip.

If I had been in your shoes, Jay, my own reaction would have been to treat
the security people with over-the-top politenes and kid gloves. As a
resident of a swing-state (Pennsylvania), I can personally attest to how
over-blown presidential security has gotten and how totally disruptive it
can be to our day-to-day lives. On July 4th, of all days, I couldn't even
walk down a street three blocks from a scheduled campaign event, despite
the
fact that I had tickets to and was on my way to attending that very same
event. Heck, the event even was due to start for another two hours! What
on earth was I, with a 3-year-old in tow, going to do three blocks away,
two
hours before the speech that would put anyone in any danger whatsoever?
So
instead my entire family, including my visibly pregnant wife, had to walk
several blocks out of our way for no good reason at all. I think it's
gone
way too far.

But I also suspect that everytime the SS encounters an irate pilot in an
FBO, it just feeds their justification mill for keeping all these "crazy
people in little planes" as far away as possible from the people they are
protecting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you went nutso on
the SS in the FBO lobby. I'm just saying that they have a certain
pre-conceived mindset concerning GA, and that anything you did short of
meek
and apologetic acceptance is quite likely to be twitsted into a
justification of this misbegotten mindset.


well put Martin, I think Jay may be turning into a troll. Big fuss about
nothing. I find the story encouraging in that the management of the
security arrangements seems proportionate to the person being protected.

as for the local i.e. non SS security, I don't blame the local police chief
or sheriff getting all his guys on the street. No one want to have the
assassination of a candidate on their watch, it is a career ender.

Of all the idiotic posts you've made, this is certainly one of them.

Couldn't you at least *pretend* to hide your prejudice? Do you have even
a
shred of evidence that the exact same thing wouldn't have happened to you
had Dick Cheney showed up at the same airport in 1999? No, of course not.

I thought the Democrats were saying that Kerry and Edwards were "the Answer"
to these problems, Pete?

Funny how they all smell the same...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"