Opinions on a M20J

"Julian Scarfe" wrote in message ...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

4) Its crosswind performance is ugly, particularly for take-offs. The
undercarriage uses rubber disks for its springs, and the wing is very
low to
the ground. Hence any bumps and you lose any side force from the
wheels,
and you have a lot of lift relatively early in the take-off roll. If you
operate an M20J from a single runway airport in a windy part of the
world,
this may be an issue. If you only rarely have to deal with 20 knot
crosswinds, no problem.

I fly around the Southwest. Take off and landing with 25-30 knots of
cross wind is no problem.

That does surprise me. I'm coming to the conclusion that either:

a) you measure knots differently :-)
b) you accept different levels of risk
or
c) you have a technique that I will never master

I'm quite happy to accept that it's (c), but would still offer the caution
about xwind performance to a prospective M20J purchaser.

I tell you, once you get down into ground effect you just don't feel
the cross wind in the Mooney at all. Of course, I started my life
flying 800lbs Aeroncas so I'm used to really feeling wind.

-Robert

"Julian Scarfe" wrote
If you're in the market for a fast, fuel-efficient single-engined tourer,
there are 4 reasons not to buy a Mooney:

Actually, there is one you missed. Cabin room.

If you're a stick (tall and thin) and you like the sportscar position
(legs stretched out in front of you, stuck into a narrow channel) you
may well enjoy a Mooney. If you are shaped more typically, like to
sit upright, and want room between you and the front seat passenger -
think again.

The late model Mooneys are not so bad (the Ovation is almost
comfortable - almost) but I have some time in a K model Mooney and it
is by far the most tight and uncomfortable aircraft I have ever flown,
not excluding the gliders.

Of course I am what might be called gravitationally enhanced, so the
best advice I can give is this - decide how long your longest trips
are going to be, and sit in one for that long. Then make your
decision.

Michael

Jon

----clip----

4) Its crosswind performance is ugly, particularly for take-offs. The
undercarriage uses rubber disks for its springs, and the wing is very low to
the ground. Hence any bumps and you lose any side force from the wheels,
and you have a lot of lift relatively early in the take-off roll. If you
operate an M20J from a single runway airport in a windy part of the world,
this may be an issue. If you only rarely have to deal with 20 knot
crosswinds, no problem.
..
..
Just hold on ground until you have flying speed and then rotate in
strong Xwind. No tire scuff, etc.

I've taken off and had to put in a 20 degree cross wind factor to
track down the runway.

Used to own a Mark 20C (manual gear 180HP) prior to wing leveler. Had
to fly all the time. Great airplane for old Fighter Pilot G

Would own one again.

----clip

Big John

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?

You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html

The 'J' will have newer avionics than the 'C' you looked at previously,
it also cruises faster and burns more fuel. Plan on 10-15 kts difference
in cruise speed between the 'C' and 'J', one gallon per hour more in
fuel burn in the 'J' and 50% or more in operating costs, considering
both fixed and variable costs. Of course the purchase price of a 'J' is
twice what a 'C' is.

Personally, I chose to buy 100% of a 'C' model Mooney rather than 50% of
a 'J'. You're looking at the same money up front and ongoing expenses
either way.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

Ken,
I jsut subscribed to the Mooney list. Guess there is no turning back
now... :-) Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student airplane owner

Ken Reed wrote:

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?


You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html

The 'J' will have newer avionics than the 'C' you looked at previously,
it also cruises faster and burns more fuel. Plan on 10-15 kts difference
in cruise speed between the 'C' and 'J', one gallon per hour more in
fuel burn in the 'J' and 50% or more in operating costs, considering
both fixed and variable costs. Of course the purchase price of a 'J' is
twice what a 'C' is.

Personally, I chose to buy 100% of a 'C' model Mooney rather than 50% of
a 'J'. You're looking at the same money up front and ongoing expenses
either way.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

Ken,
I just subscribed to the Mooney list. Guess there is no turning back
now... :-) Thanks.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student airplane owner

Ken Reed wrote:

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?


You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html

The 'J' will have newer avionics than the 'C' you looked at previously,
it also cruises faster and burns more fuel. Plan on 10-15 kts difference
in cruise speed between the 'C' and 'J', one gallon per hour more in
fuel burn in the 'J' and 50% or more in operating costs, considering
both fixed and variable costs. Of course the purchase price of a 'J' is
twice what a 'C' is.

Personally, I chose to buy 100% of a 'C' model Mooney rather than 50% of
a 'J'. You're looking at the same money up front and ongoing expenses
either way.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

"Ken Reed" wrote in message
k.net...
I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k. That seemed high but
again what do I know. Any Mooney owners out there want to give an
opinion on the M20J?

You've looked at two Mooneys now. If you are serious about getting one,
you really must join the Mooney list. You'll get more good information
there than anywhere else:

http://www.aviating.com/mooney/subscribe.html

At minimum, read Bob Kromer's flight test reports on the various Mooney
models:

http://www.mooneypilots.com/flight_test_reports.html
snip
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

You folk are a wealth of information on Mooneys. I'm overwhelmed. I took
the advice above and subscribed to the 3 Mooney lists (Mooney, Mooney-tech
and MooneyWC) but I cannot keep up with all the email. (although I'm still
interested in trading in my Cessna for a Mooney in the near future!!!)

Is the server at www.aviating.com off the air....because I cannot call up
the pages to "unsubscribe"?

Thanks,
J. Severyn

Jon Kraus wrote:

I flew this yesterday and it was nice (but what the hell do I know) He
is asking 105k but Vref says it is worth $113k.

If Vref says $113k, it's probably worth about $102k. This is based on my experience
with Vref, not with Mooneys.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

Hey Jon...keep up the posts your buying adventure. I'll be
interested to see what you finally wind up with and what the journey was
like. I'm hoping to eventually head down the ownership path. At this
point, I'm only familiar flying Cessna hardware but am definitely
interested in what you're leaning toward in the Mooney arena. Something
about 160 kts and 10 gph that just sounds like something for
nothing...er, sort of.

Nice looking plane, by the way.
--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Right now we are looking at a '79 M20J. I flew it Saturday adn it was
very nince. The owner has taken good care of the plane. My partner is
going to fly it Wednesday to get his impression. He will probably like
it. He is the one that sent me the ad. I'll keep you posted.

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
Student airplane owner

Jack Allison wrote:
Hey Jon...keep up the posts your buying adventure. I'll be
interested to see what you finally wind up with and what the journey was
like. I'm hoping to eventually head down the ownership path. At this
point, I'm only familiar flying Cessna hardware but am definitely
interested in what you're leaning toward in the Mooney arena. Something
about 160 kts and 10 gph that just sounds like something for
nothing...er, sort of.

Nice looking plane, by the way.