EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:09:02 GMT, "C Kingsbury"
wrote:


"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
country.

We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Back quite some time ago, when I was farming I needed help to hoe
beans. True it was a minimum wage job, but many of the high school
students I knew were looking for work. I could not get one to
consider a hoe handle. So, I spent most of the Summer on a hoe handle
when not on a tractor and when I considered the hours it was a lot
less than I had offered to pay them.. Hoeing beans was not hard work,
but it was tedious and tiresome.

I have found that although there are many unskilled jobs in some areas
the only ones who will take them are the immigrants. So when it comes
to the farm labor I seriously doubt they are taking jobs away from
many locals.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.

-cwk.

I have found that although there are many unskilled jobs in some areas
the only ones who will take them are the immigrants. So when it comes
to the farm labor I seriously doubt they are taking jobs away from
many locals.

I can vouch for that with housekeeping. In two years, I've only had one
American-born housekeeper that was worth a damn. They simply don't want to
work that hard.

Incidentally, we're the ONLY hotel in the area that won't hire illegal
aliens. I actually had one get verbally aggressive with me, when I asked
for her papers! She was absolutely indignant that I wouldn't hire her
without proper paperwork.

THAT is the real key to illegal immigration -- getting employers to strictly
adhere to the law.

Illegal immigrants are no different than illegal drugs -- if there were no
users, there would be no market for them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Incidentally, we're the ONLY hotel in the area that won't hire illegal
aliens.

Bravo! Putting your money where your mouth is, the surest way to live your
principles. If more of us did that, there's be less to b*tch about...

I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
detail.

Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
teach computer science at the university level-often at the
graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
left locally is final integration and selling the product.

So what can the community college teach me in re-training? I
already know how to say "you want fries with that?".

I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
will come in handy again.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...

I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
detail.

Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
teach computer science at the university level-often at the
graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
left locally is final integration and selling the product.

So what can the community college teach me in re-training? I
already know how to say "you want fries with that?".

I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
will come in handy again.


You can't have too many good bartenders.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

Perhaps Kerry also said that, but George said it in the 3rd debate, a few
times, while trying to answer the question on outsourcing.

The answer irritated me (whether from Bush or Kerry) since the jobs being
outsourced now require, at a minimum, a Bachelors degree, and many require a
Master's degree. I read somewhere today that low-end lawyer work is
starting to be outsourced.

Earl G

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

I just finished a 4 month contract doing a high-end database analysis
and redesign for a large commercial software package. The original
database was 1) not documented and 2) not relational. Not only did
I write all the docs for the original system (which will remain
in production) but I designed, implemented and tested the new
version (relational) in both oracle and mysql. And documented in
detail.

Understand, I have an alphabet after my name (many of you know I
teach computer science at the university level-often at the
graduate level) The front-end programming is already off-shore
and much of the rest of the programming is "off-shore" because the
contracted company is non-US but it did send to programmers to
the local office. I finished the DB, so about the only thing
left locally is final integration and selling the product.

So what can the community college teach me in re-training?

From either a left-wing or right-wing perspective, exporting the jobs of
relatively privileged, well-educated people (software engineers, lawyers,
etc.) is not unreasonable. From a left-wing human-rights perspective, there
is no reason that good jobs should be reserved for those who are already
well-off. From a right-wing free-market perspective, foreign workers should
be able to compete against us without government impediment.

What's objectionable instead is the contracting of low-skilled manufacturing
jobs to corporations that pay artificially depressed wages due to 1) absent
or inadequate protections for worker health and safety, coupled with
pervasive use of state violence (or state sponsorship or tolerance of
private violence) to disrupt labor organization; and 2) absent or inadequate
environmental protections, permitting corporations to destroy public
resources with impunity.

--Gary

StellaStar wrote:

Bravo! Putting your money where your mouth is, the surest way to live your
principles. If more of us did that, there's be less to b*tch about...

Everyone lives their principles -- it's just that some people don't have principles.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Blanche" wrote in message
...

I guess my college-days jobs of short-order cook and bartender
will come in handy again.

You can't have too many good bartenders.

I'll drink to that!

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Earl Grieda wrote:
"Blanche" wrote in message
I loved Kerry's comment "...we'll provide assistance to send you
to the community college for retraining..." or something like that.

Perhaps Kerry also said that, but George said it in the 3rd debate, a few
times, while trying to answer the question on outsourcing.

The answer irritated me (whether from Bush or Kerry) since the jobs being
outsourced now require, at a minimum, a Bachelors degree, and many require a
Master's degree. I read somewhere today that low-end lawyer work is
starting to be outsourced.


mea culpa...I didn't watch the entire debate but noticed the quote
in the paper the next day. on the other hand, not sure it really
matters who said it. both probably have the same opinion.

Since I dropped out of law school, guess I made the right decision
there, too.

(*chortle*)