What can I log as XC time?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

The question was whether he can log XC time when flying locally (ie take
off and land at the same airport). It doesn't matter whether that
airport happens to be his normal home airport or not. If you do not land
at a point farther than 50NM from where you took off, you cannot count
that as xc experience for most ratings.

That wasn't really my question. My question, phrased
differently, was: what is an "original point of departure"
under 61.1's definition of "Cross Country Time" used "for
the purpose of meeting the aeronautical experience
requirements."

You seem to imply that either (a) landing, or (b) staying
overnight or (c) staying multiple nights changes your
original point of departure.

In question (a) I wondered if I could keep my hangar airport
as my original point of departure for a week long trip to a
50+ nm new location near my place of residence.

Ini (b) I wondered what happens if I'm flying a long XC to
Oshkosh or California, but don't manage 50 nm of progress
some days. Is the entire flight loggable as XC?

To put this into context,

1) It's pretty clear that simply landing does not reset your
OPOD, so you can get gas 25 nm out on a 50nm+ flight and log
all of it.

2) The FAQ says the student could get stuck for a few days
due to weather, and still log all of the time without
changing his OPOD.

3) The FAQ also says a student can even fly 26 nm south "for
the purpose of repositioning the aircraft" call that airport
his new OPOD then fly 50+ nm north (but only 25+ north of
his first airport) and log THAT as XC.

The "original point of departure" is up to you to determine. When you
terminate whatever you are calling a "flight", you change your OPD. But what
you call a "flight" is also up to you. A flight can consist of multiple legs
over many days.

What the FAQ is silent on is, in the case of repositioning for the purpose of
making a cross country flight, whether the repositioning leg (before the new
OPD) can be counted as XC time. I would say yes, since a repositioning leg
after the 50nm XC could be, and there's no real difference between the two.

One of the maddening things about the FAQ and about answers from the FAA that
I've read is that they very carefully don't answer the question that was asked,
while filling the page with lots of text.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Bob wrote:



In question (a) I wondered if I could keep my hangar airport
as my original point of departure for a week long trip to a
50+ nm new location near my place of residence.

Ini (b) I wondered what happens if I'm flying a long XC to
Oshkosh or California, but don't manage 50 nm of progress
some days. Is the entire flight loggable as XC?


Don't make this more difficult than it has to be. It doesn't matter
where you live, where the plane is kept, where you get gas. If you take
off and then at some point during the flight land at a point that is
more than 50 miles away that is a cross country. Land every 5 miles if
you wish but once you land more than 50 miles from the original point it
becomes a cross country. I personally keep different days flights as
seperate but you could count a 10 day trip, flying each day, as one long
cross country trip for logging purposes.

I log any flight over 50 NM, and any shorter flight (fewer of these
each year) that requires me to use the chart and GPS.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

Any time you land at an airport other than the one you took off
from .. you can log it as X/C. However .. it must be at least 50nm
for it to count toward the X/C requirments toward your PPL, CPL, Instr.
For simplicity I just forego logging it unless it's 50nm.


"Bob" wrote in message
...
1) I keep my plane in a hangar at an airport more than 50
nm from the airport nearest my home. I decide to fly it
home for a week (1 hr), and tie it down. I fly locally for
that week (5 hrs), then back to my hangar airport (1 hr).
How much of that can I log as XC time usable for a rating?

2) I decide to take a long multi-day trip. Most days I fly
far more than 50 nm (25 hrs). Some days I fly "locally" to
see the sights and return to the same airport (10 hrs) that
is more than 50 nm from home. Some days I make only a
little progress and land less than 50 nm from the airport of
the previous day, but much farther than 50 nm from my hangar
airport (5hrs). How much of that can I log as XC time
usable for a rating?

Bob wrote in message . ..
1) I keep my plane in a hangar at an airport more than 50
nm from the airport nearest my home. I decide to fly it
home for a week (1 hr), and tie it down. I fly locally for
that week (5 hrs), then back to my hangar airport (1 hr).
How much of that can I log as XC time usable for a rating?

2) I decide to take a long multi-day trip. Most days I fly
far more than 50 nm (25 hrs). Some days I fly "locally" to
see the sights and return to the same airport (10 hrs) that
is more than 50 nm from home. Some days I make only a
little progress and land less than 50 nm from the airport of
the previous day, but much farther than 50 nm from my hangar
airport (5hrs). How much of that can I log as XC time
usable for a rating?


What is the rating you are after? The FAR's spell it out pretty
clearly. If you land at an airport or other place then where you take
off from, it is clearly a cross country flight. Yeah yeah I know.....
there are those who will argue the point but they can only see as far
as what is described in the FAR's and that only applies to those
flights needed to meet a particular requirement for a rating and that
is for Private or Commercial pilot, or the IFR XC. For the rest of it,
a 5 mile flight is XC. Outside of the specific regulation, its all
semantics.

What is the rating you are after? The FAR's spell it out pretty
clearly. If you land at an airport or other place then where you take
off from, it is clearly a cross country flight.

Since (aside from one's own pleasure) the point of logging a flight as XC is for ratings, I log as XC only flights that qualify under the 50nm rule. It makes it easier to count later.

Jose

Jose wrote in message om...
What is the rating you are after? The FAR's spell it out pretty
clearly. If you land at an airport or other place then where you take
off from, it is clearly a cross country flight.

Since (aside from one's own pleasure) the point of logging a flight as XC is for ratings, I log as XC only flights that qualify under the 50nm rule. It makes it easier to count later.

Jose
Jose
The FAR's are pretty specific about XC logging for a rating. Aside
from that, there is no requirement to log any time except to prove
recency or qualification for a particular rating. We can always
nit-pick the finer points later but I do see your point. Problem is
after you already have all the ratings and forget to log time. I
suspect I've lost a thousand hours in the log from pure laziness in
that regard. When you are flying 12-14 hour days you are too damned
tired to fool with a logbook as you head for a shower and bed!
Cheers
Ol Shy & Bashful

(SelwayKid) wrote:

What is the rating you are after?

It will probably just confuse you, but if you really want to
know, it's 1) insurance 2) commercial airplane 3) Sport CFI

The FAR's spell it out pretty
clearly. If you land at an airport or other place then where you take
off from, it is clearly a cross country flight.

But I posted "50 nm" and "usable for a rating" several times
to make it clear what type of XC time I wanted to log.

Yeah yeah I know.....
there are those who will argue the point but they can only see as far
as what is described in the FAR's and that only applies to those
flights needed to meet a particular requirement for a rating and that
is for Private or Commercial pilot, or the IFR XC. For the rest of it,
a 5 mile flight is XC. Outside of the specific regulation, its all
semantics.

But I'm interested in the "specific regulation"

Bob wrote in message . ..
(SelwayKid) wrote:

What is the rating you are after?

It will probably just confuse you, but if you really want to
know, it's 1) insurance 2) commercial airplane 3) Sport CFI
*****
Bob
Check FAR 61.1 definitions.

The FAR's spell it out pretty
clearly. If you land at an airport or other place then where you take
off from, it is clearly a cross country flight.

But I posted "50 nm" and "usable for a rating" several times
to make it clear what type of XC time I wanted to log.

Yeah yeah I know.....
there are those who will argue the point but they can only see as far
as what is described in the FAR's and that only applies to those
flights needed to meet a particular requirement for a rating and that
is for Private or Commercial pilot, or the IFR XC. For the rest of it,
a 5 mile flight is XC. Outside of the specific regulation, its all
semantics.

But I'm interested in the "specific regulation"