Sport Pilot - School Won't Offer

"Slick" wrote:
I started in a glider and I would recommend everyone to do the same. Because
of my glider training I was able to do my PP-SEL in the bare minimums, 41
hours, I went over by an hour b/c I went for a solo flight to my prospective
college. I would have been under 40 hours if it weren't for the required 20
hours instruction. My last 6 hours of instruction were spent getting checked
out in a 172 and giving my instructor a tour of the tow I live in and the
town I work in. Learning how to "feel" an airplane is easy in a glider.
There's barely any radio, no tower, no VOR, but a whole lot of coordinated
flying, something that isn't as noticeable in a Powered plane. When I sat
down and calculated it, it could have been cheaper for me to do my PP-G then
continue to my PP-SEL than to go the other way around, if I had known I was
going to get my PP-SEL. At the time I thought I was just going to fly
gliders for the rest of my life. In any case, doing the required flights for
a glider, then doing the minimum of 40 hours for power was cheaper than
doing 65 hours of power then the 10 flights in a glider.

I did the same thing and agree that it was a benefit to have learned *to
fly* in the glider first for some of the reasons listed above,
particularly your mention of the emphasis on coordinated flight. I
wouldn't say, however, that it's "less noticeable in a powered plane,"
rather that the amount of control input necessary for coordinated flight
in a Cessna, for example, is much less than in a glider.

Like everything, each individual is different. IMO, going to powered
aircraft from glider wasn't necessarily all THAT easy, and getting a
glider add-on (to PP SEL) takes a bit more than only "10 flights in a
glider" that you implied above. The FAA requires 3 hours dual + 10 solo
flights + checkride for Private Glider add-on (no additional written).
Not all add-ons finish in those minimum times/flights. FAA requires 10
hrs dual + 7 hrs solo + written exam and checkride for Private Glider
(not add-on). Not everyone finishes the rating in those minimums,
either, and depending on what time of year it is, where you do it, and
what glider you're flying, that *can* get expensive, too.

Learning the radio and associated towered/non-towered airport procedures
when you aren't used to doing ANY of that while you fly (our gliderport
and trainers do not use radios at all, nor do we travel to other
airports during Private Glider training) takes some getting used to and
practice. If you didn't do x-c glider, using the sectional while you fly
may also be a new experience as is some of the flight planning,
navigating to *go* somewhere, transitioning various airspaces, and
learning who to call and when (Flight Service, Flight Following, Center,
Approach, etc.). Depending on what aircraft you do the SEL in, it can be
quite different to go from the glider's tandem seating and stick to
sitting on the left using a yoke -- lining yourself up with the
centerline looks different when you're sitting on the left than when
you're sitting in the middle. Approaches are different ... my tendency
to make steeper approaches with minimum power and my SEL instructors'
(with no previous glider) tendency to make lower approaches with more
power drove each other a bit crazy, and I remember my glider
instructor(s) saying that PP SELs doing add-ons have the same reverse
tendency when making glider approaches. Doing a go-around is different!!
Coming into the pattern from every direction, depending on tower
instructions, was new and different as was learning how to estimate
distances when making calls to the tower and setting up left or right
base only vs. full pattern.

No additional written exam is required when going from SEL to Glider,
but another written exam *is* required going from Glider to SEL. Much of
the material is the same; the section on Systems is new.

In keeping with the topic, PP Glider doesn't require a medical.
Regardless of whether it is beneficial or "cheaper" to do glider before
or after SEL, glider does enhance one's understanding, and several SEL
pilots doing glider add-on have commented that the glider training
sharpened their SEL skills and understanding.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:23:47 GMT, ET wrote:

You get your Sport Pilot. Fly around for 100 or 200 hours, go back and
get your night work, hood work, and towered radio work training, except
that takes VERY little time because the airplane is now almost second
nature to fly. Then choose to get your PPL.

There's also the factor that it's wise and it's fun to take additional
training. After 100 hours the local airports will all seem pretty
familiar, and you'll want a new challenge.

For me, it was spin training and bush pilot school. Last year it was
Class D airports, and I still haven't done any IFR training. Not
everybody wants to do the training in the same order.



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:32:00 -0500, "Gary G"
wrote:

Now that the Sport Pilot license is available, I inquired with my school.
The manager basically said "it's useless" and couldn't really see why anyone would
want it. Later in his conversation he says, "...unless someone just wants to fly around
their airport - you can't really go anywhere..." - which is only partially true
if one gets an endorsement on ADIZ, Class B, and Cross Country.
However, I see a great opportunity in this program, and would like it as a stepping
stone to my Private.

I got the same reaction when I insisted on getting a recreational cert
a few years ago. I still think I did the right thing--especially now
that sport pilot has come in and the rules have extended my privileges
to controlled airspace!

With a sport pilot cert you can fly across the United States. That's
someplace! Sheez.

Your FBO guy is just bad-mouthing a certificate that he doens't have
the training or the equipment to offer you. If you go to
www.pipercubforum.com/friendly.htm you will see some airfields that
offer instruction in Piper Cubs. I'll bet that most of them have
already twigged to sport pilot training, though it's true that
instructors may be hard to qualify so early in the game.

Good luck!





-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net

Gary,

See http://www.sportpilot.org/, it's an EAA website. There's plenty of
information there that'll counter any mis-information you may be
hearing.

Also, it's not in MD, but see Valley Aviation in Winchester, VA, not
far from MD. They've got an Aeronca that they're using for SP
training. And, they're outside the ADIZ in the Shendendoah valley.

Some inside-ADIZ instructors I've talked to would be interesting in
teaching SP, but won't do it there since the complication factor with
Class Bravo and the ADIZ is too high in their view.

-Malcolm Teas

Sounds like he has it confused with the recreational certificate.

mike regish

"Gary G" wrote in message
...
I started my PP training about 1 1/2 years ago, but due to some unfortunate
medical problems
in my family, have had to postpone it until this summer.

Now that the Sport Pilot license is available, I inquired with my school.
The manager basically said "it's useless" and couldn't really see why
anyone would
want it. Later in his conversation he says, "...unless someone just wants
to fly around
their airport - you can't really go anywhere..." - which is only partially
true
if one gets an endorsement on ADIZ, Class B, and Cross Country.
However, I see a great opportunity in this program, and would like it as a
stepping
stone to my Private.