Another glider crash?

A few years ago I had to do an 8-mile straight in approach in the rain
and against traffic. It's a completely different story of how I got
into that position. :-[ . Anyway, I called straight in from 5 miles and
announced that my gear would remain up due to my low energy state. I
continued making periodic calls with the gear statement and added that I
would lower the gear when I got over the pavement. Keeping the gear up
got me to the runway and making the calls reinforced the need to put it
down as soon as I crossed the threshold.

Still haven't scraped the belly and plan not to...

On 9/22/2015 8:05 AM, BobW wrote:
We also had a gear up landing the day before that discussion. The
pilot got
low south of the field and was preparing to land on RWY 36. He got a
small
thermal which boosted him to 300' AGL and decided to extend to base
for RWY
26. He told me he was thinking "Oh Boy! This is gonna be my best
landing
ever!", and then hearing a scraping sound...

I have watched two incidents of ASW15s ground effect flying across the
airfield with brakes shut and wheel going up and down. Quite amazing
performance!

An ASW15 pilot I once knew used to place a rubber band around the brake
handle. When he deployed the brake he thought "what's that rubber band
doing on the handle" and it reminded him to put the wheel down! A
bit like
tying a knot in your tie.

1) Every place at which I've ever taken instruction or "BFR" (a U.S.
thing) has taught the "visual spoiler check" as part of the pattern
checklist, so I kinda hoped it was "the standard" throughout the U.S.
(a country of unrepentant individualists). Evidently not?

2) Having heard it was possible (as in people had done it already) to
confuse handles (e.g. typically, gear for spoilers), I believed; the
proposition seemed plausible. Upon crossing over to the dark side of
large-deflection landing flaps instead of spoilers, I still believed
it was plausible, but another part of my brain simultaneously
concluded it was unlikely, given the "unmistakably differing" effects
of flap vs. spoiler deployment. Nonetheless, I seem to remember a
retractable-gear 1-35 crunch that *may* have involved handle
confusion, despite the 1-35's "unmistakably/ergonomically conflicting"
flap/gear handles/actuation. If it happens it must be possible has
long been one of my personal maxims. :-)

3) The gear-up scenario above may well be THE number one reason for
glider gear-ups, i.e. focus on "something else" to the detriment of
Joe Pilot's routine procedures. The very first time I "stretched a
glide" back to the pattern in a retractable gear glider, about the
time I concluded I was "good for at least a straight-in" I also ran my
pattern checklist (at ~300' agl). Yup. I'd completely forgotten about
the gear to that point. Talk about shock and alarm!

Points being, those simple things your instructor (so it's hoped)
taught you about checklists and verifying one's actions, aren't only
based on others' prior mistakes, but they *work!*

Bob - no gear-ups or handle confusions yet - W.


--
Dan, 5J

The green and red dots sound like a good trick. I'll check my supply of
paints.

BTW, in the LS-6 (and probably other LS gliders) the gear is pushed up
and pulled down. I thought that was pretty neat - all levers forward to
go fast, all back to slow down and land.

On 9/22/2015 10:15 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
One day, a bit dehydrated, maybe not enough O2 I had a very difficult time deciding if the gear in my 24 was up or down. Could not quite read the sticker. I had over 100 hours in this glider and it is obvious, handle forward, gear down, handle back gear up. Nevertheless, I was not sure finally figured it out landed ok. So I have put a green paint dot on the gear down and locked and a red one on gear up position. This was the same fight I landed with a big head ache and forgot to dump water ballast, nor did I fly a faster pattern for the higher wing loading, could have been a real bad day! We all can have a bad day so I have tried to make the cockpit"stupid" friendlier. I also put a stinclied landing checklist on the panel. Stay safe out there and perhaps use this thread to reevaluate anything that can make your flying safer.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

--
Dan, 5J

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 12:15:54 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
One day, a bit dehydrated, maybe not enough O2 I had a very difficult time deciding if the gear in my 24 was up or down. Could not quite read the sticker. I had over 100 hours in this glider and it is obvious, handle forward, gear down, handle back gear up. Nevertheless, I was not sure finally figured it out landed ok. So I have put a green paint dot on the gear down and locked and a red one on gear up position. This was the same fight I landed with a big head ache and forgot to dump water ballast, nor did I fly a faster pattern for the higher wing loading, could have been a real bad day! We all can have a bad day so I have tried to make the cockpit"stupid" friendlier. I also put a stinclied landing checklist on the panel. Stay safe out there and perhaps use this thread to reevaluate anything that can make your flying safer.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Colour vision is about the first to go when "maybe not enough O2" is a problem; depending on it may not be the best plan. The SSA sheet with the picture of a glider with gear up and down, to me is most obvious (though I have a decal with "UP" and "DOWN" as a secondary reminder.

At 17:36 22 September 2015, Dan Daly wrote:


Colour vision is about the first to go when "maybe not enough O2" is a
prob=
lem; depending on it may not be the best plan. The SSA sheet with the
pictu=
re of a glider with gear up and down, to me is most obvious (though I
have
=
a decal with "UP" and "DOWN" as a secondary reminder.


Green arrow pointing UP and Red arrow pointing DOWN
Colour and shape.

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 2:00:14 PM UTC-4, Benedict Smith wrote:
At 17:36 22 September 2015, Dan Daly wrote:


Colour vision is about the first to go when "maybe not enough O2" is a
prob=
lem; depending on it may not be the best plan. The SSA sheet with the
pictu=
re of a glider with gear up and down, to me is most obvious (though I
have
=
a decal with "UP" and "DOWN" as a secondary reminder.


Green arrow pointing UP and Red arrow pointing DOWN
Colour and shape.

I'm confused already and I'm at sealevel and well hydrated.

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 08:03:20 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Of the 5 gliders I've owned, only the ASW-19b had the gear handle on the
left side. I never liked that and it's never been a problem changing
hands on the stick to lower the gear with the other gliders.

As well as the ASW-20, the other common one with this arrangement is the
Pegase.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I did have the little symbol of glider with wheel down and up, while I have perfect distance vision and did not need reading glasses at that time, I could not quite make out which symbol was which. I do like the idea of a colored arrow, I will put that in my glider ( better than the red or green quarter sized paint dot). Also, a poster mentioned "unmistakable". I have experience in all aircraft except balloons, and I can tell you humility is a good quality. I have made the same mistake I have another pilot making, while wondering, how could any pilot make that mistake, question answered. Our sport is not very forgiving, so stack the odds in your favor. I now fly with a finger tip oyxgen meter. Take great pains to stay well hydrated before and during the fight. I go on o2 at 10,000 as I live at sea level. Will this keep me from screwing up? I really try to keep thinking and checking my thought process, but I have learned we can screw up and hopefully muscle memory will not fail us. Stay my fellow pilots!

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 2:57:14 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I did have the little symbol of glider with wheel down and up, while I have perfect distance vision and did not need reading glasses at that time, I could not quite make out which symbol was which.

I have the official symbols as well. But it's not immediately obvious without a pretty careful look which picture shows the wheel down. I really like the idea of supplemental Green/Red arrows.

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 2:13:04 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
On Tuesday, September 22, 2015 at 2:57:14 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I did have the little symbol of glider with wheel down and up, while I have perfect distance vision and did not need reading glasses at that time, I could not quite make out which symbol was which.

I have the official symbols as well. But it's not immediately obvious without a pretty careful look which picture shows the wheel down. I really like the idea of supplemental Green/Red arrows.

Label maker: Big font "UP" and "DOWN" in the appropriate place. Easy to read, no thinking "what does green mean?" required.

Like Dan, I like the LS solution better.

As a side note - I raise the gear at 500' agl on tow (nose hook), to prevent forgetting it after release in the rush to find a thermal, etc. I also tow in thermalling flaps (+5), so when I release in lift there is nothing to do but climb...

And my landing checklist is short: Wind (direction for pattern), Water (ballast gone or fly faster), Wheel (down and locked).

Kirk
66

Green vs Red, Up vs Down; both do seem like extremely simple matters to interpret into a correct action of the control. And for most of us they almost always would be. Problems can arise when the landing has issues such that the pilot becomes 99.9% focused on people walking across the runway, strong crosswinds, low altitude or any of a number of other special circumstances or combinations of distractions. The remaining 0.1% mental processing power that's reserved for matters of routine may be less than sufficient to correctly establish where the landing gear control should be set.

A better way, I think, is to provide yourself with checklist instruction requiring no interpretation whatsoever: Ballast Lever Forward; Landing Gear Forward.

This still leaves the crucial problem of getting onto the right control. But, at least, there is no processing required to get the sense correct.