US Competition Pilot Poll and Election

On Sunday, 23 October 2016 10:25:12 UTC-6, wrote:
..

Folks we have two sets of rules in every country for soaring. First set of rules is the laws of the land, second set is the FAI competition rules. When we host a world championship here in America, we don't use the cockamamie rules of the SSA, we use FAR's and FAI, in that order. Don't forget that.


The above statement is not accurate. At the 2012 Uvalde Worlds there were specific changes implemented via the local procedures, sorry I do not have a copy nor could I find a copy online, to FAI rules regarding the flight rules that mimicked the SSA rules. Specifically a start cylinder was able to be used, maximum start height was used, and minimum finish altitudes were implemented. I also believe that the maximum turnpoint cylinder diameter was increased but I could be wrong. A custom version of SeeYou competitions was made available for the 2012 worlds.

Ron Gleason
2012 Uvalde Open Class scorer

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 9:25:12 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Matt Heron,

If safety is your top priority, then MAT's should be your least favorite task. The MAT is the most dangerous task possible. When you have a large group of aircraft flying in random directions back and forth over an area, not under air traffic control directions, you are setting up pilots for having a high chance of a mid air collision. An organized route drastically limits the chances of flying head to head with everyone going on a task (think FAI triangle IE).

Ask any air traffic controller how scary it would be for him to have 50 planes changing course, altitude, speed in a completely unpredictable manner and ask him how confidant he would be in the safety.

Even fly-in's for powered aircraft at Oshkosh or Sun n Fun have arrival and departure routes to fly to limit the chance of a mid air and keep it organized.

Perhaps you've never lost a friend to a mid air collision and know the reality that this is.

Folks we have two sets of rules in every country for soaring. First set of rules is the laws of the land, second set is the FAI competition rules. When we host a world championship here in America, we don't use the cockamamie rules of the SSA, we use FAR's and FAI, in that order. Don't forget that.

If you had a mid air and survived by bailing out. Even a good aviation lawyer could not defend you if you were violating FAR 91.13 "Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.".....if you were participating in a MAT.

Even with AAT's and TAT's smart CD's will utilize a steering turnpoint.

MAT's are VERY careless and wreckless.

Hi Wilbur,

I appreciate your passion on the subject. I am always open to being persuaded by facts. Do you have any to back up your claim that MAT's are wreckless? Is there a statistically significant increase in the number of fatalities, mid-airs, or near misses during US sanctioned contests over the last five years VS any other type of task? The data should be available. Convince me. If you can't however, then you should be willing to change YOUR position.

My safety concerns re FAI rules concern low altitude finishes. Are these allowed? I seem to recall a great deal of effort has gone into the SSA rules to make contests safer by changing finish rules.

Matt

Sorry to nitpick....."wreckless" sorta means "no bent bits", while "reckless" is more of an attitude......

Sorta my issue with an "FAA near miss", so we bent multiple aircraft?
Bending towards George Carlin, "shouldn't it be called a 'near hit'"?

Enough said, history is almost everything.........

Hey Wilbur,

If you hope to persuade anyone, you first need to earn their respect. A good start would be signing your posts with your real name.

However, if Wilbur is just an alias that you are using to prop up your own arguments, as some have started to suspect, you should give it up.

In any case, hiding behind an alias only demonstrates that you have something to hide and that won't earn you any respect.

Branko Stojkovic
XYU

Just a clarification on MATs -

I don't disagree with the safety comments on MATs without any required turnpoints.

A MAT with required steering turnpoint as the last turnpoint helps safety to some extent.

A MAT with both a required first turnpoint and a last steering turnpoint helps even more.

A Long MAT should be almost on par with regards to safety as an AT or a TAT I would think.

Lou

On the time and format issue, several national contest lately have been set up to start on a weekend and finish on the next weekend.

Unless you are local to the site, that makes the contest effect THREE work weeks, which is a no go for me, and probably many others.

I finally have a glider that is competitive in handicapped classes, sports, would have been in the Club, but the latest change to that class limits span to 15 meters.

The format that has been used successfully by the 1-26 Association for the Championships for many years has started with practice on Mon and Tues with the contest beginning on Wed. That leaves time for travel on both ends so you do not turn a National into a Regional contest. I would strongly urge this type of format for any contest that is not a regional.

Kevin
92

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:53:29 AM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned, but aren't there some safety concerns with the types of finishes allowed in FAI rules VS SSA? I want to live to fly another day.

Second point; When discussing MATs, Sean seems to equate a pilot's opportunity to make strategic decisions with "luck". I like the MAT task because it draws on more skills and experience than just "how fast can you fly through the same air as the other guy?". Picking the best route for your skill level, the weather, and the performance of your ship in the day's conditions are strategic decisions that reflect the the skill and experience of one pilot over another. There may be a small level of chance involved, but even then, a pilot may choose to take a chance on a particular decision based on his particular standing in the contest so far.

Keep the MAT

Matt Herron

Matt, how is that different than OLC? The only good MAT is MAT that has more points than one can make in a day. A MAT with one turn point is simply fly around for points task. Since you can see too far forward it is pretty much a luck game.

If you look at score sheets, top pilots always end at the top, except when MAT with one turn point is involved. I am not going to bring up names here. I have heard enough swearing by these pilots right after MAT tasks.

Andrzej

On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 12:31:19 PM UTC-4, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Sunday, October 23, 2016 at 11:53:29 AM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned, but aren't there some safety concerns with the types of finishes allowed in FAI rules VS SSA? I want to live to fly another day.

Second point; When discussing MATs, Sean seems to equate a pilot's opportunity to make strategic decisions with "luck". I like the MAT task because it draws on more skills and experience than just "how fast can you fly through the same air as the other guy?". Picking the best route for your skill level, the weather, and the performance of your ship in the day's conditions are strategic decisions that reflect the the skill and experience of one pilot over another. There may be a small level of chance involved, but even then, a pilot may choose to take a chance on a particular decision based on his particular standing in the contest so far.

Keep the MAT

Matt Herron

Matt, how is that different than OLC? The only good MAT is MAT that has more points than one can make in a day. A MAT with one turn point is simply fly around for points task. Since you can see too far forward it is pretty much a luck game.

If you look at score sheets, top pilots always end at the top, except when MAT with one turn point is involved. I am not going to bring up names here. I have heard enough swearing by these pilots right after MAT tasks.



Typing too fast so let me correct the post.

Matt, how is that different from OLC? The only good MAT is a MAT that has more points than one can make in a day. A MAT with one turn point is simply fly around for points task. Since you can not see too far forward, it is pretty much a luck game.

If you look at score sheets, top pilots always end up at the top, except when a MAT with one turn point is involved. I am not going to bring up names here. I have heard enough swearing by these pilots right after MAT tasks.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 12:18:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Hello US contest pilots.
The annual competition rules poll and election of rules subcommittee members is now open at
http://www.adamsfive.com/a5soaring/survey/surveys.php
The poll and election is open to all pilots on the ranking list.
Please take the time to fill out the poll. provide comments and input and vote for
your next representative.
UH
SSA RC Chair

Trust me #6 is just the best!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw9-xVCmLP0

Best. Tom #711.