Refinishing: Who has tried a shortcut?

I have monitored sections of gel-coated gliders with and without WX =
block. There is a VERY noticeable difference of yellowing on areas not =
protected. This has been over a 5 year period. As a UV blocker, WX =
block seems to work as advertised.

Paul

This thread is what makes ras work. Reuben I have
a 17 year
old ship with some cracking on the wings. From your
experience
with composites, should I go poly or gel? And should
I have all
the old gel taken off, even if this will be more money?

The wings I am preparing to refinish will be done in urethane and I
will be removing all the gelcoat that can be removed safely. I am
addicted to gelcoat though. Must be the smell.

Reuben

Stewart Kissel wrote in message ...
This thread is what makes ras work. Reuben I have
a 17 year
old ship with some cracking on the wings. From your
experience
with composites, should I go poly or gel? And should
I have all
the old gel taken off, even if this will be more money?

Moisture will also settle around fittings and migrate into areas where it
really should not be. I think it is always better practice not to leave a
ship outside. Wider temp swings, etc...

Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glider Pilot Network"
To: "Paul Gaines"
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: [r.a.s] Refinishing: Who has tried a shortcut?-U out there JJ?


------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Refinishing: Who has tried a shortcut?-U out there JJ?
Author: Andy Durbin
Date/Time: 14:30 23 December 2003
------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Gaines wrote in message news:...


Dry out your ship, slick it up, use WX block system once, preferably
=
twice a year, NEVER tie it out, and store it in your trailer inside a
=
basement or hanger, etc..

P. Gaines


Why *NEVER tie it out*. Is your concern UV, moisture, or something
else? My ship is based in Phoenix, AZ where the humidity is usually
very low. Most of my fellow club pilots tie down for the duration of
a contest.

When I go to New Mexico or Texas I see dew on the wings in the
morning. Why should I be concerned about a little moisture on the
wings if I put 30 gallons inside them for 6 or more hours each contest
day?


Andy (GY)

------------------------------------------------------------

Reuben-

Fascinating post, would not waxing increase UV damage?

Time for a round up.

I started this thread 4 days ago and I asked:

There has been quite a bit on refinishing on RAS recently. Most people
advocate that when gel-coat starts cracking up, it is essential to remove
it ALL.

There has been lots of advice and theory as to why the above is true. No
doubt it is the recommended approach - recommended by many who are not in a
position where they might have to pay for the work!

However there was little response to my question:

Does anybody out their own a ship which was refinished without removing
all the gel-coat? What is the service history of these gliders?

So far there have been two postings of problems with re-finishes. Neither of
these involved a polyurathane finish. Gliders re-finished with extensive or
complete removal of the old gel-coat have held up - at least as well as the
original gel coat.

So I will extend the question. Does anybody anybody know of gliders that
have been refinished with polyurathane and subsequently experienced
problems?

I can answer that by saying I know of one glider that was re-finished with
polyurathane about 10 years ago. There is some localised paint cracking on
the tailplane and rudder which suggests that there were some areas of poor
preparation during the refinish. I suspect that the glass skin on these
areas is thiner more flexible which results in a finish that is more
susceptible to cracking. This was not an "expensive" refinish job, for
example the ailerons and flaps were not removed during the respray. But
overall the glider still looks very neat and I think I can say this finish
has lasted as least as well as many factory gel coat finishes.


Ian

I know of wings on a Phoebus that was sanded and then sprayed with
Polyurethane.
After a couple of years, the wings looked like surface of El Mirage Dry Lake
in Southern California.
The old gelcoat pieces were not coming off but the cracks and fissures in
the paint were obvious to the most casual observer.
However, this Phoebus is still flying and it has been probably 15 years since
sprayed.
GA

Ian,

I have had excellent results with a 'partial' gelcoat removal/refinish ...
repainted with Simtek Prestec ... fuse 5 years old, still perfiect ... as
are wings 3 and 2 years since refinish. This is a lot of work, BTW.
Documented on SRA site ...

http://sailplane-racing.org/Articles...asw20_wing.htm

BTW ... did I say this is a lot of work. JJ ... apologize for stealing your
punch line. :-)

KK
Ken Kochanski


"Ian Forbes" wrote in message
news
Time for a round up.

I started this thread 4 days ago and I asked:

There has been quite a bit on refinishing on RAS recently. Most people
advocate that when gel-coat starts cracking up, it is essential to
remove
it ALL.

There has been lots of advice and theory as to why the above is true. No
doubt it is the recommended approach - recommended by many who are not in
a
position where they might have to pay for the work!

However there was little response to my question:

Does anybody out their own a ship which was refinished without removing
all the gel-coat? What is the service history of these gliders?

So far there have been two postings of problems with re-finishes. Neither
of
these involved a polyurathane finish. Gliders re-finished with extensive
or
complete removal of the old gel-coat have held up - at least as well as
the
original gel coat.

So I will extend the question. Does anybody anybody know of gliders that
have been refinished with polyurathane and subsequently experienced
problems?

I can answer that by saying I know of one glider that was re-finished with
polyurathane about 10 years ago. There is some localised paint cracking on
the tailplane and rudder which suggests that there were some areas of poor
preparation during the refinish. I suspect that the glass skin on these
areas is thiner more flexible which results in a finish that is more
susceptible to cracking. This was not an "expensive" refinish job, for
example the ailerons and flaps were not removed during the respray. But
overall the glider still looks very neat and I think I can say this finish
has lasted as least as well as many factory gel coat finishes.


Ian

Ian - painting a control surface without removing it means it has not
been checked for proper mass-balance, and for many gliders is likely
way out of spec - flutter hazard and not airworthy. If you refinish
over cracked gelcoat, the cracks will continue to propagate upwards
through the finish and downwards into the laminate - not airworthy
and hidden.

A reputable and knowledgable mechanic will sign off neither of
these "shortcuts".

Be careful out there,
Happy Holidays, Dave

PS: Yes, I have seen gliders where these shortcuts were taken,
and yes, it caused serious problems later.

Ian Forbes wrote in message ...
Time for a round up.

I started this thread 4 days ago and I asked:

There has been quite a bit on refinishing on RAS recently. Most people
advocate that when gel-coat starts cracking up, it is essential to remove
it ALL.

There has been lots of advice and theory as to why the above is true. No
doubt it is the recommended approach - recommended by many who are not in a
position where they might have to pay for the work!

However there was little response to my question:

Does anybody out their own a ship which was refinished without removing
all the gel-coat? What is the service history of these gliders?

So far there have been two postings of problems with re-finishes. Neither of
these involved a polyurathane finish. Gliders re-finished with extensive or
complete removal of the old gel-coat have held up - at least as well as the
original gel coat.

So I will extend the question. Does anybody anybody know of gliders that
have been refinished with polyurathane and subsequently experienced
problems?

I can answer that by saying I know of one glider that was re-finished with
polyurathane about 10 years ago. There is some localised paint cracking on
the tailplane and rudder which suggests that there were some areas of poor
preparation during the refinish. I suspect that the glass skin on these
areas is thiner more flexible which results in a finish that is more
susceptible to cracking. This was not an "expensive" refinish job, for
example the ailerons and flaps were not removed during the respray. But
overall the glider still looks very neat and I think I can say this finish
has lasted as least as well as many factory gel coat finishes.


Ian

Ian,

With respect, you cannot establish good practice by
totting up numbers of for and against contributions
to RAS. Bob Lacovara's contribution says it all.

If you come to resell the shortcut refinished glider
will you make clear to potential purchasers that the
condition of the glider laminate is unknown and can
only be checked by removing the new and underlying
old finishes?

John Galloway


At 09:36 20 December 2003, Ian Forbes wrote:
Time for a round up.

I started this thread 4 days ago and I asked:

There has been quite a bit on refinishing on RAS recently.
Most people
advocate that when gel-coat starts cracking up, it
is essential to remove
it ALL.

There has been lots of advice and theory as to why
the above is true. No
doubt it is the recommended approach - recommended
by many who are not in a
position where they might have to pay for the work!

However there was little response to my question:

Does anybody out their own a ship which was refinished
without removing
all the gel-coat? What is the service history of these
gliders?

So far there have been two postings of problems with
re-finishes. Neither of
these involved a polyurathane finish. Gliders re-finished
with extensive or
complete removal of the old gel-coat have held up -
at least as well as the
original gel coat.

So I will extend the question. Does anybody anybody
know of gliders that
have been refinished with polyurathane and subsequently
experienced
problems?

I can answer that by saying I know of one glider that
was re-finished with
polyurathane about 10 years ago. There is some localised
paint cracking on
the tailplane and rudder which suggests that there
were some areas of poor
preparation during the refinish. I suspect that the
glass skin on these
areas is thiner more flexible which results in a finish
that is more
susceptible to cracking. This was not an 'expensive'
refinish job, for
example the ailerons and flaps were not removed during
the respray. But
overall the glider still looks very neat and I think
I can say this finish
has lasted as least as well as many factory gel coat
finishes.


Ian