Revisiting declining membership

There is no point in continuing to talk about this problem. Unless we reach
some concensus and do something about it nothing is going to change. Too
much talk and not enough action.

Talking amoungst ourselves will get us nowhere. We need to start promoting
ourself in the wider world.



"Jack" wrote in message
ups.com...
This thread took off on course but meandered off to a dying cu. I agree
that Hobbs at least needs to be a soaring site.

What's needed is NEW MEMBERS. People come into this sport and leave
with frightening regularity. They will come in and get their license,
and disappear after a couple of years because - in my humble opinion -
1.) the cost of competitive sailplanes is too high - 2.) the cost of
operating a new sailplane per hour can be outrageous - 3.) too many FAI
pilots fly in lesser classes, and don't share their knowledge with
fledgling competitors - 4.) they get scared off early due to cost - 5.)
Hell, it just costs a lot of money to do this in most places.

Let's focus on growing the sport/hobby of soaring. I think we're
missing a great deal of potential soaring pilots in the radio control
model ranks.I think clubs should host R/C soaring clubs for a day and
offer rides at a reduced rate, close the airport at 5:00 PM and let
them show you a thing or two about THEIR form of soaring. Some of that
effort will be wasted. Some will pay off. There will be a few of those
guys that will become good soaring pilots/club members.

I have been doing R/C soaring stuff since 1973, and flying real
sailplanes since 1985. I am just getting back into the air after a
4-year absence, but I also just bought a sailplane.

Another problem I percieve is the "You gotta have the latest, greatest,
fastest, slipperiest or you're a nobody" syndrome. I spent some money,
not too much, and I'm enthralled with my ship. It isn't the latest
thing. In fact, far, far from it. I finally learned that, regardless of
the opinions of some of my wel-meaning friends, I can be very happy
with yesterday's hotty. If you're telling people that you have to spend
$50K or more to be happy... please STOP!!

Another thing is the club structure. I can't really speak to this much,
becase I've been a member of only 3 clubs. Admittedly, the first one
SPOILED me. I have since compared just about all of my flying
experiences, R/C and real, to that club, as a benchmark. Texas Soaring
Association is a hard thing for others to live up to. However, Soaring
Club of Houston has improved to become a VERY close second. The other
club I was involved with was not good to me at all, and I had a bad
experience there. That club and others like it, are partly responsible
for soaring's decline. Again, my opinion, I'm sure yours is different.

Instructors teach people to take off and land, box the wake, stall, and
basic maneuvers. Clubs need a SOARING instructor to hand these people
off to. FLoating around the airport at minimum sink does get boring.

I'm stepping off my soap box now... to spend some time with the
girls...

Jack Womack

"Jack" wrote in message
ups.com...
This thread took off on course but meandered off to a dying cu. I agree
that Hobbs at least needs to be a soaring site.

What's needed is NEW MEMBERS. People come into this sport and leave
with frightening regularity. They will come in and get their license,
and disappear after a couple of years because - in my humble opinion -
1.) the cost of competitive sailplanes is too high - 2.) the cost of
operating a new sailplane per hour can be outrageous - 3.) too many FAI
pilots fly in lesser classes, and don't share their knowledge with
fledgling competitors - 4.) they get scared off early due to cost - 5.)
Hell, it just costs a lot of money to do this in most places.

SNIP
One other that I haven't seen here (and which was a prime reason for me
ceasing to be active) was the very small return on investment of time. I
belonged to a members club, where the day was spent in self-help pushing and
pulling before your own time came. I was at the club at least once each
weekend, from early to late, and a look through my log book shows I got an
average of around one quarter of an hour flying for each day spent! (And
that did not include the days spent working in the hangars due to rain or
wind preventing flying, or the evenings helping at the group air experience
flying, as those did not result in an entry in the log book.)

Although I got to the 'B' certificate (solo, but not clear of the airfield),
the personal return to me never really compensated for the guilt of not
maintaining the house and doing all those other domestic jobs that refuse to
go away! 8-)

Keith
(Still interested in soaring, and an avid lurker, but probably the only way
I'd get into the air in future would be via power)

If you are concerned about he high cost of new and used gliders, then you
should
let your congressmen and congresswomen know they should support a strong US$ -
in case you have
not noticed, during the past 3 years
the US$ has declined in value by
~50 to 55% versus the Euro- in other words the cost of gliders manufactured in
Euro currency based countries (ie. Germany) have increased in US$ by
~ double. Explained another way, it takes
twice as many US$ to buy the same
glider as it did 3 years ago. For some
stupid reason, our government believes
a weak US$ produces more export sales -
in actual fact, there is almost no increase
in US exports and we end up with the
worst of both worlds - no substantial
export sales and a weak US$ - the reason
we have no significant increase in export sales is that the rest of the world's
economies are "in the toilet" and cannot
afford even so called cheap exports from
the US. The effect is best observed by
glider pilots who ask about prices in US$
for new gliders - it is shocking that a new
glider costs twice as many US$ as it did
3 years ago - thanks to those financial
advisors who advocate a weak US$ - which I believe is completely wrong thinking
by idiots in our government -
namely those economic professors who
dwell only in their "ivory tower" environments and not in the real world.

At 10:30 27 January 2005, Keith W wrote:

'Jack' wrote in message
oups.com...
This thread took off on course but meandered off to
a dying cu. I agree
that Hobbs at least needs to be a soaring site.

What's needed is NEW MEMBERS. People come into this
sport and leave
with frightening regularity. They will come in and
get their license,
and disappear after a couple of years because - in
my humble opinion -
1.) the cost of competitive sailplanes is too high
- 2.) the cost of
operating a new sailplane per hour can be outrageous
- 3.) too many FAI
pilots fly in lesser classes, and don't share their
knowledge with
fledgling competitors - 4.) they get scared off early
due to cost - 5.)
Hell, it just costs a lot of money to do this in most
places.


One other that I haven't seen here (and which was a
prime reason for me
ceasing to be active) was the very small return on
investment of time. I
belonged to a members club, where the day was spent
in self-help pushing and
pulling before your own time came. I was at the club
at least once each
weekend, from early to late, and a look through my
log book shows I got an
average of around one quarter of an hour flying for
each day spent! (And
that did not include the days spent working in the
hangars due to rain or
wind preventing flying, or the evenings helping at
the group air experience
flying, as those did not result in an entry in the
log book.)

Although I got to the 'B' certificate (solo, but not
clear of the airfield),
the personal return to me never really compensated
for the guilt of not
maintaining the house and doing all those other domestic
jobs that refuse to
go away! 8-)

Keith
(Still interested in soaring, and an avid lurker, but
probably the only way
I'd get into the air in future would be via power)

Wonder what the ratio of work to flight time was for
Orville? What is the time ratio between laboring and
eating? How about courting and mating? Real thrills
don't charge at us constantly; if you flat line a peak
it becomes a plateau. I like soaring and I like hanging
out with the club members, and I enjoy working on the
equipment. The sailors who sail all their lives enjoy
working on the boats almost as much as sailing them.
If it is all drudgery except the flying, it won't
be enduring; find your passion and stick with it.

RHWOODY wrote:
If you are concerned about he high cost of new and used gliders, then you
should
let your congressmen and congresswomen know they should support a strong US$ -
in case you have
not noticed, during the past 3 years
the US$ has declined in value by
~50 to 55% versus the Euro- in other words the cost of gliders manufactured in
Euro currency based countries (ie. Germany) have increased in US$ by
~ double. Explained another way, it takes
twice as many US$ to buy the same
glider as it did 3 years ago. For some
stupid reason, our government believes
a weak US$ produces more export sales -
in actual fact, there is almost no increase
in US exports and we end up with the
worst of both worlds - no substantial
export sales and a weak US$ - the reason
we have no significant increase in export sales is that the rest of the world's
economies are "in the toilet" and cannot
afford even so called cheap exports from
the US. The effect is best observed by
glider pilots who ask about prices in US$
for new gliders - it is shocking that a new
glider costs twice as many US$ as it did
3 years ago - thanks to those financial
advisors who advocate a weak US$ - which I believe is completely wrong thinking
by idiots in our government -
namely those economic professors who
dwell only in their "ivory tower" environments and not in the real world.

Great points. Just makes me love my 28 year old Mosquito that much
more. :-)

Shawn

..I like soaring and I like hanging
out with the club members, and I enjoy working on the
equipment. The sailors who sail all their lives enjoy
working on the boats almost as much as sailing them.
If it is all drudgery except the flying, it won't
be enduring; find your passion and stick with it.



NW,
Well said!
That's really what it's about.
For me at least.
The difference between a sailboat and a yacht is who works on it and I still
have a picture of Ted Turner (along with some of the rest of the crew)
sanding away on the bottom of one of his old race boats.
Cheers!, Pete (35 year sailor, in and out of soaring and now back)

Wonder what the ratio of work to flight time was for
Orville? What is the time ratio between laboring and
eating? How about courting and mating? Real thrills
don't charge at us constantly; if you flat line a peak
it becomes a plateau. I like soaring and I like hanging
out with the club members, and I enjoy working on the
equipment. The sailors who sail all their lives enjoy
working on the boats almost as much as sailing them.
If it is all drudgery except the flying, it won't
be enduring; find your passion and stick with it.


But if you're really flying as little as I managed to get in, having
difficulty pushing 10 hours per year, I don't consider that as safe,
especially in the 'just post solo' stage, where one needs the hours to get
everything grooved together before forgetting something vital, like getting
back on the deck!

Maybe in a region where the weather is more consistent, so that whenever
there is a good day, the line isn't hogged by the 'real flyers', and the air
experience flying, 'cos the club needs the money, it might be different.

Most people initially join a flying club primarilly to fly. The involvement
of socialising and working on the craft comes at a later stage (and I have
done a considerable amount of that - I also spent a couple of years as the
treasurer, and I hate to think of the number of hours that chewed up!).
However, if the primary requirement is not satisfied, the enjoyment of the
other things will wain.

Keith

the US$ is down.yes..........or......did we just get use to an abnormally
inflated $?
calling your corgressman isn't going to chage this.politicians rarely have
any positive effect on economies aside from their own pay packages.
It is true that few new gliders are being sold from Europe to the
USA......but, also if you have a closer look you'll also certainly notice
very few are being sold IN Europe as well......
Our "toys" are expensive.....by comparison to many (most) other sports.that
is just a matter of fact.....
my 2c
tim

"RHWOODY" wrote in message
...
If you are concerned about he high cost of new and used gliders, then you
should
let your congressmen and congresswomen know they should support a strong
US$ -
in case you have
not noticed, during the past 3 years
the US$ has declined in value by
~50 to 55% versus the Euro- in other words the cost of gliders
manufactured in
Euro currency based countries (ie. Germany) have increased in US$ by
~ double. Explained another way, it takes
twice as many US$ to buy the same
glider as it did 3 years ago. For some
stupid reason, our government believes
a weak US$ produces more export sales -
in actual fact, there is almost no increase
in US exports and we end up with the
worst of both worlds - no substantial
export sales and a weak US$ - the reason
we have no significant increase in export sales is that the rest of the
world's
economies are "in the toilet" and cannot
afford even so called cheap exports from
the US. The effect is best observed by
glider pilots who ask about prices in US$
for new gliders - it is shocking that a new
glider costs twice as many US$ as it did
3 years ago - thanks to those financial
advisors who advocate a weak US$ - which I believe is completely wrong
thinking
by idiots in our government -
namely those economic professors who
dwell only in their "ivory tower" environments and not in the real world.

Tim Mara wrote:
the US$ is down.yes..........or......did we just get use to an abnormally
inflated $?

Gilders may be selling slowly in general due to economic issues, but it
is the relative value of the dollar vs. the euro that is causing sales
in the US to approach zero. I'm probably a reasonable case study in
this regard, 10 years ago the economy was strong, and I was making a
decent income, so I purchased a new (but relatively low end) glider on
my own. 5 years ago, the economy was weakening, my income was slightly
lower, I had a family, etc., yet I purchased two new gliders, but this
time in partnership with others. At this point, my income is still
about the same as it was 5 years ago, but thanks to the exchange rate
I'm no longer in a position to even contemplate buying a new glider,
with or without partners.

calling your corgressman isn't going to chage this.politicians rarely
have any positive effect on economies aside from their own pay
packages.

political-rant
In this case, I have to disagree with you. The fall of the dollar is
directly due to the actions of congress and the administration. If the
"no-tax and spend" republicans (and some democrats) hadn't cut taxes on
the wealthy, funded their favorite pork barrel projects, and allowed us
to get bogged down in a worthless war in Iraq, we'd probably be looking
at a slight surplus right now, rather than a half-trillion dollar
deficit. As it is now, the major reserve banks outside of the US are
quietly shifting their funds from the dollar over to the euro. At some
point, this process is going to accelerate, and we'll be looking at a
dollar in freefall, along with record levels of inflation. Enjoy!
/political-rant

Marc

You know...after reading all postings I still come to the conclusion
that the declining membership is related directly to the cost. It
doesn't matter if the dollar is strong or weak, or if the Euro
dominates the world. What it matters is that gliders and related
equipment are extremely expensive. Bottom line. Discus cost nowadays
50,000 euros, add trailer, lets say Cobra...about 10,000 Euros, add
some instruments...lets say $5000.00, pay all the shipping cost from
Europe, pay ( in state of Washington we have to pay a use tax which I
believe is about 8%) and that will give you pretty good idea about the
cost of sailplanes. Now, that is still pretty cheap....considering all
the facts. But the Diana 2 will cost 57,000 Euros, Alexander Schleicher
???? the other Schempp-Hirth sailplanes????? now parachute???? about
$1400.00. O'K I am getting very pessimistic here, but then ....add a
cost of a single tow, I now that a winch launch by one outfit in
Washington State is $25.00 !!!! isn't this outrages?? Now, you get a
kid, lets say 18 years old. He might even like soaring, he might be a
future world champion, but...he looks at the cost involved and says
"the hell with this, I'll get me mountain bike". You see, he doesn't
see anything in our sport for himself but just the cost. Some people
trying to make it rich, so they will be ripping everybody off, and then
the wife gets up on Sunday and she says "honey, no more gliding for
you, it is to expensive and you have family". Well, your racing just
went bye bye. Did not happen? I bet you it did. And not at only one
occasion. The glider and glider related equipment manufacturers need to
open their eyes and smell the coffee because a few years from now we
will be the only sailplane pilots left and according to the young minds
of this world " we will belong with the dinosaurs....extinct". They
need to justify their cost and not only the profit margin. If we have a
group of young pilots now, or in very near future, the profit will
happen by itself. Otherwise they will be buying airplanes.