A new direction for an old thread: Crosswind landings

It's interesting that everyone is talking about aligning with the
centerline of the runway.

Why not set up a diagonal landing and thus reduce the crosswind
component at touchdown. Even on a narrow runway, one can line up on
the downwind side and touch down maybe 20 degrees or more into the
wind.

With practice, one can land even more into the wind, then while the
rudder is still effective, make a gentle downwind turn so the nose is
again away from the crosswind and as speed drops, the glider will
finally weathervane into the wind. The ground track is a kind of S
turn.

-Tom

5Z wrote:

Even on a narrow runway, one can line up on
the downwind side and touch down maybe 20 degrees or more into the
wind.

A recipe for disaster. Obviously you've never seen a narrow runway.

Reminds me of that old joke where a navy pilot talks about a somewhat
short, but very large runway.

Stefan

Martin Eiler wrote:

....
Exactly what is your definition of 'flying straight'
and 'turn'?
....

I'm always amused to see to which degree a very simple action can be
artificially complicated. Just land that plane.

When I talked about crabbing as the natural, most comfortable, most
flexible and simply best method for crosswind correction, I thought of a
stedy crosswind, of course. When it's gusty and turbulent, as a former
poster mentioned, then me too, I just do what has to be done to keep the
ship and me in one piece, and think about it later, if at all. Heck,
I've even flown regular *turns* (yuck!) in the final, when conditions
asked for them! But I wouldn't teach that to a student.

Stefan

Stefan wrote:
A recipe for disaster. Obviously you've never seen a narrow runway.

With that tone, I assume you've never seen a wide runway!

I think it's obvious that each landing requires a unique set of tools
to be applied.

Where I fly, the runway is about 14M wide with grass on either side and
no lights. Easy to apply some of my techniques. At another airport
the runway is maybe 25M wide with lights and a bit of a dropoff from
pavenent to rough dirt on the sides. Still easy to land diagonally.

I have also landed on areas that are just a few meters wide (of smooth
ground) with rough terrain on either side. In this case I would indeed
line up on the centerline and stay there.

I have also landed in the "paddock" in the middle of the airport, and
flown the approach at 90 degrees to the paved runway when the wind was
40-50 knots.

A recipe for disaster is to not make the best approach for the
conditions.

-Tom

5Z wrote:

With that tone, I assume you've never seen a wide runway!

You're partly correct. I still remember my first landing on a paved
runway with actual, painted numbers and a real center line. Just like
the big guys! Now *that* was an adventure!

Where I fly, the runway is about 14M wide with grass on either side and
no lights. Easy to apply some of my techniques. At another airport
the runway is maybe 25M wide with lights and a bit of a dropoff from
pavenent to rough dirt on the sides. Still easy to land diagonally.

At my home base, the runway (sort of, difficult to tell on grass) is
about 20 meters wide. On One side, there are often some gliders parked
along the runway, on the other side are 30 cm high markers. I don't like
the idea of landing diagonally.

A recipe for disaster is to not make the best approach for the
conditions.

I fully agree.

Stefan

Stefan wrote:
5Z wrote:

Even on a narrow runway, one can line up on
the downwind side and touch down maybe 20 degrees or more into the
wind.


A recipe for disaster. Obviously you've never seen a narrow runway.

I saw Tom at Boulder once, before the runway was widened to 16 feet or
so. :-)

Reminds me of that old joke where a navy pilot talks about a somewhat
short, but very large runway.

Stefan

Ok here is a little video gem for you all....in the middle of this
video

http://www.silentflight.com/movies/silentflight.wmv

there is a crosswind landing (30 degree + in 20+ knots of wind) in my
ASW22.

Big Plane, Big wind, Big crosswind angle.

Note the yaw string in the incockpit footage.

enjoy...

Al

I've seen quite a few. And the reason to have the discussion is because
competent pilots continue to break themselves and their gliders as a
result of pilot error. Why? Well, we're exploring one avenue. You are
welcome to help us or not.

Cheers

"My god," the pilot exclaimed as the plane screeched to a halt. "That
has to be the shortest runway I've ever had to land on."

"Yeah," replied the copilot, "But look how wide it is!"

Todd,

You have the advantage of a pretty clear understanding of what's going
on in the air. In yearspast (yes, years... arrrgh!), the "difference"
between crabbing and slipping has been a bone of contention. As I noted
earlier in the thread, the Soaring Flight Manual presents crabbing and
side slipping as additive. The new direction is to divorce this notion
from discussion of crosswind landings.