Student Pilot Gets Five Months In Prison

Even if it IS the "only game in town," it doesn't give the FAA, a
government agency, license to break the law.



Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired wrote:
jls wrote:

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:Z1LVd.21110$Sn6.8789@lakeread03...

Jughugs wrote:


"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:qkyVd.20908$Sn6.6551@lakeread03...


No, you are. A history of drug abuse is an indicator of future
behaviour.



This is blatent bull****... you've eaten way too many government MRE's


That's your opinion. Since you can't debate without being abusive this
discussion is closed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



Ah, but Dan


snip

If I read what you wrote correctly you feel questions about of criminal
behaviour don't belong in a medical exam. I say they do for the simple
reason they are evaluating you physically and mentally. When you start
going to see a shrink or counselor that is one thing that will come up
when you fill out your initial paperwork. It is important to know when
evaluating the patient.

While I don't agree with some of the logic used in FAA medical
determinations I do fully understand that if you want to fly, and the
agency that will allow you to do that has deemed certain questions must
be asked you have to honestly answer the questions. If it weeds out a
few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's the only
game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dude wrote:
If it weeds out a

few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's the only
game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


As an extremely honest person who has never used an illegal drug and has
served in the military I would like to disagree.

Undoubtedly, if we kept former military members from flying, we would "weed
out a few nut cases". If this is your standard for good law, you need to
stop voting.

That was a cheap shot. Have a nice day.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

So let them use. As long as they do it responsibly, what is the problem?



Matt Whiting wrote:

Jughugs wrote:

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:qkyVd.20908$Sn6.6551@lakeread03...

No, you are. A history of drug abuse is an indicator of future
behaviour.



This is blatent bull****... you've eaten way too many government MRE's


No, that is pretty well known. It is very hard for drug abusers to
quit, whether the drug is nicotine, alcohol or something else.

Past users are very much more likely to be future users.


Matt

AINut wrote:

Even if it IS the "only game in town," it doesn't give the FAA, a
government agency, license to break the law.

snip

criminal behaviour don't belong in a medical exam. I say they do for
the simple reason they are evaluating you physically and mentally.
When you start going to see a shrink or counselor that is one thing
that will come up when you fill out your initial paperwork. It is
important to know when evaluating the patient.

While I don't agree with some of the logic used in FAA medical
determinations I do fully understand that if you want to fly, and the
agency that will allow you to do that has deemed certain questions
must be asked you have to honestly answer the questions. If it weeds
out a few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's
the only game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What laws are the FAA breaking by asking such questions? Privacy? You
don't have to answer the questions and FAA doesn't have to issue you a
ticket. It's all voluntary.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired wrote:

If I read what you wrote correctly you feel questions about of criminal
behaviour don't belong in a medical exam. I say they do for the simple
reason they are evaluating you physically and mentally. When you start
going to see a shrink or counselor that is one thing that will come up
when you fill out your initial paperwork. It is important to know when
evaluating the patient.


The problem I have with it are several, but in this particular case, can
we not quote double jeopardy. The judge sentences you to prison for 10
years. Once you've served your time, why do you then get hit with
arbitrary questions that further restrict your rights. I could see it
if the sentence for ******* was 10 years and never fly a plane again,
but I don't think that judges usually do that. At what point can a man
fade away into society and once again become a citizen?

It's reprehensible that the government will give a sentence, and then
keep heaping on more judgements after the debt is paid.

While I don't agree with some of the logic used in FAA medical
determinations I do fully understand that if you want to fly, and the
agency that will allow you to do that has deemed certain questions must
be asked you have to honestly answer the questions. If it weeds out a
few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's the only
game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

There's the rub, Dan. 'the agency that will allow you' You see certain
inalienable rights as endowed by Congress. I see them endowed by my
creator. 'The agency' doesn't allow; they forbid. I already had the
right. They've taken it away, unless I follow their set of arbitrary
rules, and they use a lot of guns to do it. Make no mistake about it,
'the agency' is a group of people using force to exert their will on
another group of people (person in this case). But such is a democracy
that we just have to make a big enough stink about it to get the rules
changed.

Here's an interesting question. If it was SO easy to check the guy's
background...so easy that it was obvious to everybody that he would be
caught... then why ask? Would it be just to have something else for
applicant's to trip over? Just to see if you can make them lie?
There's a maxim in politics that if you make enough 'good' laws then
everyone becomes a criminal. At that point you can get rid of whoever
you like. Defacto totalitarianism, with a facade of legitimacy.

Here's another one. Why put it on the medical? Could it be to hide
responsibility of collecting the information? Is it to use the
legitimacy of doctors to hide the illegitamcy of the question? But
then, doesn't it make doctors defacto policemen?

I view the 'agency that will allow' you to fly and their
'determinations' as a group of people with personal agendas, one of
which is to increase their own power and importance. They are not my
parents, and I do not need them to pamper me and protect me from myself.
I play the game, because I know they have lots of guns and I've seen
enough movies to want to avoid the inside of jail cells. But just
because I go along doesn't mean that it's not all bull****e.

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:jiQVd.21124$Sn6.18842@lakeread03...
Dude wrote:
If it weeds out a

few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's the only
game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


As an extremely honest person who has never used an illegal drug and has
served in the military I would like to disagree.

Undoubtedly, if we kept former military members from flying, we would
"weed out a few nut cases". If this is your standard for good law, you
need to stop voting.

That was a cheap shot. Have a nice day.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I don't think it was all that cheap. If you want to amend your statement, I
would be glad to read what you really meant. Thoughts like the one you wrote
are much too common these days, and its getting more expensive everyday.

What laws are the FAA breaking by asking such questions? Privacy? You
don't have to answer the questions and FAA doesn't have to issue you a
ticket. It's all voluntary.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

This whole "privilege" thing has been taken way too far by our government.
We will see how you feel after they come for your ticket.

"AINut" wrote in message
...
So let them use. As long as they do it responsibly, what is the problem?



Matt Whiting wrote:

Jughugs wrote:

"Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired" wrote in message
news:qkyVd.20908$Sn6.6551@lakeread03...

No, you are. A history of drug abuse is an indicator of future
behaviour.



This is blatent bull****... you've eaten way too many government MRE's


No, that is pretty well known. It is very hard for drug abusers to quit,
whether the drug is nicotine, alcohol or something else.

Past users are very much more likely to be future users.


Matt

True, but if you give them no reason to quit, then they will not. Drawing
the line and saying anyone who ever got convicted for possession cannot fly
seems to be over the top to me. I am more likely to get run over by them
than hit by them in a plane. Should we not take away their driving
privileges as well?

Ernest Christley wrote:

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired wrote:

If I read what you wrote correctly you feel questions about of
criminal behaviour don't belong in a medical exam. I say they do for
the simple reason they are evaluating you physically and mentally.
When you start going to see a shrink or counselor that is one thing
that will come up when you fill out your initial paperwork. It is
important to know when evaluating the patient.


The problem I have with it are several, but in this particular case, can
we not quote double jeopardy. The judge sentences you to prison for 10
years. Once you've served your time, why do you then get hit with
arbitrary questions that further restrict your rights. I could see it
if the sentence for ******* was 10 years and never fly a plane again,
but I don't think that judges usually do that. At what point can a man
fade away into society and once again become a citizen?

It's reprehensible that the government will give a sentence, and then
keep heaping on more judgements after the debt is paid.

For one thing a felon loses some civil rights until he petitions to have
them restored. The 2 most notable are the rights to vote and own guns.


While I don't agree with some of the logic used in FAA medical
determinations I do fully understand that if you want to fly, and the
agency that will allow you to do that has deemed certain questions
must be asked you have to honestly answer the questions. If it weeds
out a few nut cases then it serves the purpose. Let's face it, it's
the only game in town.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


There's the rub, Dan. 'the agency that will allow you' You see certain
inalienable rights as endowed by Congress. I see them endowed by my
creator. 'The agency' doesn't allow; they forbid. I already had the
right. They've taken it away, unless I follow their set of arbitrary
rules, and they use a lot of guns to do it. Make no mistake about it,
'the agency' is a group of people using force to exert their will on
another group of people (person in this case). But such is a democracy
that we just have to make a big enough stink about it to get the rules
changed.

Driving and flying are privileges, not rights. FAA was created to create
and enforce rules to keep flying safe. Feel free to try to get this
changed. That's why congressmen have telephones and aides to read their
mail.

Here's an interesting question. If it was SO easy to check the guy's
background...so easy that it was obvious to everybody that he would be
caught... then why ask?

Perhaps computerized checks aren't as efficient as you think, maybe the
paper questions are to allow the process to get underway while waiting
for the background checks, it could be a hold over from before
computerized checks. Who knows, the fact remains the questions are there
and no one is forcing you to apply for a license.

Would it be just to have something else for
applicant's to trip over? Just to see if you can make them lie? There's
a maxim in politics that if you make enough 'good' laws then everyone
becomes a criminal. At that point you can get rid of whoever you like.
Defacto totalitarianism, with a facade of legitimacy.

Here's another one. Why put it on the medical? Could it be to hide
responsibility of collecting the information? Is it to use the
legitimacy of doctors to hide the illegitamcy of the question? But
then, doesn't it make doctors defacto policemen?

I view the 'agency that will allow' you to fly and their
'determinations' as a group of people with personal agendas, one of
which is to increase their own power and importance. They are not my
parents, and I do not need them to pamper me and protect me from myself.
I play the game, because I know they have lots of guns and I've seen
enough movies to want to avoid the inside of jail cells. But just
because I go along doesn't mean that it's not all bull****e.

Yes, that's what it is, a bunch if rich white men who ride in black
helicopters who are out to get you.

Dn, U.S. Air Force, retired

jls wrote:

Good luck, boys, getting by the moral character and fitness committee for
that flying ticket.


There are a lot of things you can do that carry penalties. A felony
conviction removes your right to hold public office, or vote, and in
some states you can't get that voting right back unless you file a
petition, wait, and hope somebody approves it. Of course, get a little
buzzed and miss a corner driving on a dark road, and the penalty's
death. You see people every day in the paper who paid that penalty, and
weren't asked if they approved.

Life may not be fair, but the FAA asks you to be honest. There's a good
chance they'll note it, file it, and give you the medical with no fuss.
I know. It's not their job to play The Punisher. It's not your right
to hide that past, which after all is on legal record.

Go ahead and tell your girlfriend your record's clear. It's your karma.
But don't lie to the FAA. You're asking for the privilege of getting a
pilot's certificate, and they're the folks who grant it, so you go by
their rules. That's the way it is, babe!