Have you ever...

Capt.Doug wrote:
"Michelle P" wrote in message Having hours and confidence does help
knowing I can take the controls if necessary.


What if the PIC scoffs at your concerns and does not relinquish the controls
to you?

She said "knowing I can *take* the controls." She didn't say anything about the
other guy giving them up willingly. (It's amazing what a #2 knitting needle can
do.) :-)

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

It's better to be on the ground looking up and wishing that you were
flying than to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.

- J.O.-

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With
that person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

Oh, yeah.

An acquaintence of mine owns a twin. His idea of recurrent ME training
is to get a BFR from a good ol' boy CFI buddy who will sign his book
after a sight-seeing tour followed by a couple of beers.

Insurance? That's for suckers.

Maintenance? Hell, it flies, doesn't it? He's got another good ol' boy
who does his annuals.

I'm convinced that if he lost these good ol' boy connections, he'd
simply stop bothering with the paperwork and keep on flying. I can kind
of understand his attitude--he's pushing 70 and single--but no way I'd
fly with him.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Absolutely! Actually a friend of mine. He commuted in his plane every
day and would "brag" to me about how it was so rote that he didn't
feel the need to preflight each time. He then related the "funny"
story about how one morning he took off and just as he reached pattern
altitude the engine began to sputter. He realized that he hadn't put
fuel in for a while and probably didn't have any fuel left and
managed to turn it back to the airport to land. Also, since he had
been strapped for cash, he had not had an annual for a couple of
years. I told him that no way was I going to fly with him. He was
insulted and wouldn't acknowledge me after that. Just found out he
sold the airplane and I was relieved both for him and any potential
passengers.


On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 04:32:55 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

"Jay Honeck" writes:

...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

A couple of times. It doesn't happen often 'cause remembering mommy's
advice I usually don't consider flights with strangers.

The last time I turned down a flight was when I was looking for an
airplane to buy. In that process one does encounter questionable
planes and pilots and they usually are paired with each other. So
when I politely refused one owner's eager offer of a flight it had as
much to do with the plane as the pilot.

The other time was years ago when I was in a flying club. There, you
get to know the club members and based on their behavior on the ground
you can extrapolate to their behavior in the air.

Bob Fry wrote:
The other time was years ago when I was in a flying club. There, you
get to know the club members and based on their behavior on the ground
you can extrapolate to their behavior in the air.

that's funny because on the ground (especially in rental cars ;-) ) I
have this reputation of being a lunatic....ok not that bad. ;-) I like
to push things but I know where the line is and stay well well clear of
going near it. For instance, when I ski, I like to go fast-ish and
don't mind jumping off of 8 foot cornices.
If I don't know where the line is, I don't even think about
going near it. I know my limitations. In the air though, I am
unbelievably conservative ever since day one. I do everything very
formerly, follow the rules, follow the standard procedures, don't
even go close to thinking I'm a test pilot. Well my friends know
this but others probably think I should be institutionalized.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to convince my brother (a neurologist)
and his wife (a psychiatrist) of this.

But you are correct, generally the crazy person on the ground
is the crazy person in the air.

Gerald

Jay Honeck wrote:
...refused to fly with someone you felt was not entirely safe? (With that
person acting as PIC, not as a passenger in your own plane.)

Yes, I have refused to fly with people who I felt were unsafe. I've
also refused to fly as PIC with people who I felt were unsafe. Being
PIC does nothing for you if the other person grabs the yoke on short
final and you both wind up as a flaming ball of wreckage.



I had it happen earlier this year, for the first time, ever, and it felt,
well, weird.

I think I did the right thing, but it's hard to say. That funny little
voice in my head just kept saying "stay on the ground..." -- so I did.

Never heard that voice before.

"Jimmy B." wrote in message
nk.net...
Yes, I have refused to fly with people who I felt were unsafe. I've
also refused to fly as PIC with people who I felt were unsafe. Being
PIC does nothing for you if the other person grabs the yoke on short
final and you both wind up as a flaming ball of wreckage.

Had that happen to me once... Before the flight, I had instructed him that
he was under no circumstances to touch the controls... He freaked out during
a bank, grabbed the yoke and his feet started pumping the rudder pedals... I
put a right elbow with a significant amount of force into his upper torso
area and he let go... If he hadn't, the next elbow was going to be going
into his face... I won't fly with him again...

Grumman-581 wrote:
"Jimmy B." wrote in message
nk.net...

Yes, I have refused to fly with people who I felt were unsafe. I've
also refused to fly as PIC with people who I felt were unsafe. Being
PIC does nothing for you if the other person grabs the yoke on short
final and you both wind up as a flaming ball of wreckage.


Had that happen to me once... Before the flight, I had instructed him that
he was under no circumstances to touch the controls... He freaked out during
a bank, grabbed the yoke and his feet started pumping the rudder pedals... I
put a right elbow with a significant amount of force into his upper torso
area and he let go... If he hadn't, the next elbow was going to be going
into his face... I won't fly with him again...

Yep, that sounds a lot like my experience. Only, with me, I did a
karate chop right to his Adam's apple. His gag reflex made him let go.

"Jimmy B." wrote in message
ink.net...
Yep, that sounds a lot like my experience. Only, with me, I did a
karate chop right to his Adam's apple. His gag reflex made him let go.

You must have either been in a larger plane or have shorter arms... grin