Charted Visual Flight Procedures

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

VMC is not necessarily VFR, and varies with the nature of the IFR
operation. In
the case of a visual approach, charted or not VMC means clear of the
coulds and
not less than 3 s.m flight visibility.


Where'd you get that idea?

Where I'd get what idea?

Antoñio wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Antoñio" wrote in message
...

Yawn I think I'm gonna go see what's on the tube...



I suggest something simple.


Ahhh..Stephenator! How nice to see you breaking out of
passive-agressive, frustrated unappreciated genius government worker,
I'll show those idiots by going into knowledgeable esoteric semi-troll
mode; to actually form a complete, and unambiguous (though not
uncharacteristic) sentence! ;-)

Antonio

That sums it up quite well.

wrote in message ...

Where I'd get what idea?


That VMC varies with the nature of an IFR operation. VMC just means
meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from
cloud, and ceiling equal to or better than specified minima which vary with
the class of airspace. Whether an operation is conducted under VFR or IFR
has nothing to do with it.

Well, I'm certainly glad you guys CLEARED up that ambiguious issue?
I've forgotten, can ATC issue this procedure if the aircraft is in IMC
or not???? And if ATC issues it erroneously, and the pilot accepts it,
who is at fault? And what am I supposed to say, as a pilot, if ATC
issues it and I don't want to accept it? "Unable, request IFR
approach?" or something like that?

Sounds like someone should file one of those NASA forms, as the powers
that be need to know this is going on.

My take on it, is if I am below the Inititial Approach Fix minimum
altitude, I need to be on an IFR approach if I do not have the
visibility to accept a Visual Approach. That's what I am comfortable
with as a pilot. (Except Contact Approach or Special VFR, which still
require some visibility). Certainly, if I'm in a cloud and below the
IAF I need to be on an IFR approach.

Doug wrote:
Well, I'm certainly glad you guys CLEARED up that ambiguious issue?
I've forgotten, can ATC issue this procedure if the aircraft is in IMC
or not????

ATC doesn't know if you're in IMC or not. They can make a good guess
based on the reported weather, but only you know for sure.

And if ATC issues it erroneously, and the pilot accepts it,
who is at fault?

You are. ATC may be too, if they issued it contrary to some rule that
bears on them, but that's not really your concern (or mine).

And what am I supposed to say, as a pilot, if ATC issues it and I
don't want to accept it? "Unable, request IFR approach?" or
something like that?

Exactly. It might help to tell them what approach you want, "Unable
visual, request ILS".

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, I'm certainly glad you guys CLEARED up that ambiguious issue?
I've forgotten, can ATC issue this procedure if the aircraft is in IMC
or not????


Yes, as being in VMC when the clearance is issued is not one of the required
conditions.



And if ATC issues it erroneously, and the pilot accepts it,
who is at fault?


If ATC errs they are at fault.



And what am I supposed to say, as a pilot, if ATC
issues it and I don't want to accept it? "Unable, request IFR
approach?" or something like that?


Yup.



Sounds like someone should file one of those NASA forms, as the powers
that be need to know this is going on.


Need to know what is going on?

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

You are. ATC may be too, if they issued it contrary to some rule that
bears on them, but that's not really your concern (or mine).


How is the pilot at fault if ATC issues it erroneously?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

Where I'd get what idea?


That VMC varies with the nature of an IFR operation. VMC just means
meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from
cloud, and ceiling equal to or better than specified minima which vary with
the class of airspace. Whether an operation is conducted under VFR or IFR
has nothing to do with it.

If I am flying a VOR approach to a Class D airport where the reported weather
is 800 overcast, visibility 2 miles, and the MDA is 700 feet HAT, minimum vis 1
mile, and I become clear clouds at 750 feet, HAT, I determine that my flight
visibility is 2.5 s.m., am I VMC or IMC as I pass through 400 feet, HAT, on
descent with all visual requirements of 91.175 being continuously met?

wrote in message ...

If I am flying a VOR approach to a Class D airport where the reported
weather is 800 overcast, visibility 2 miles, and the MDA is 700 feet HAT,
minimum vis 1 mile, and I become clear clouds at 750 feet, HAT, I
determine
that my flight visibility is 2.5 s.m., am I VMC or IMC as I pass through
400 feet,
HAT, on descent with all visual requirements of 91.175 being continuously
met?


IMC

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

wrote in message ...

If I am flying a VOR approach to a Class D airport where the reported
weather is 800 overcast, visibility 2 miles, and the MDA is 700 feet HAT,
minimum vis 1 mile, and I become clear clouds at 750 feet, HAT, I
determine
that my flight visibility is 2.5 s.m., am I VMC or IMC as I pass through
400 feet,
HAT, on descent with all visual requirements of 91.175 being continuously
met?


IMC

hmmm...


INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions expressed in
terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling less than the minima
specified for visual meteorological conditions.

VISUAL METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS - Meteorological conditions expressed in terms
of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling equal to or better than
specified minima.

According to those two definitions, taken in context, both IMC and VMC are
related to "specified minima." What's the definition of specified minima? In
my example, the minima specified under Part 97 for the hypothetical VOR
approach are 700 feet HAT, and visibility of 1 mile. Since my flight
conditions exceed those values seems like I am VMC, but not VFR.