Who does flight plans?

Michael 182 wrote:
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of
the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare
for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost
never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the
west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the
winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do?

Michael

I used to calculate everything manually, and took pride in interpolating
wind / temperature data, and tweaking my climb and descent profiles to
get the total time enroute accurate to a minute or two. That became
boring, so I then concentrated on improving the speed with which I did
all the calculations.

Then my time became money, and I realized that doing it manually no
longer served any purpose (there's only so much you can learn from a
whiz-wheel, or calculating these things manually...particularly after a
few zillion times). Now I let the computers do it and I find that given
the right data, they're accurate to within 1 minute. I don't dig holes
with shovels anymore.

FYI, if you want to plan / file direct VFR, fine. But don't try that
IFR -- particularly in the northeast. It irritates the controllers, and
no surprise. The AIM specifies that you should file airways (sorry I
don't have the exact reference handy...but just read Don Brown's columns
on Avweb for more info). The entire ATC system (airspace boundaries,
etc.) are based on the airway system, and when you file direct, you
increase controller workload. Given the shortage of controllers, that's
just about the last thing you should do.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

I would say that is increasingly a NE issue. In the SE boonies (south
of the Wash ADIZ), once they see /G, they tend to clear you direct
*independent* of your plan. In FL my experience is that you will be
initially cleared on airways then either thru request or offer, you can
get direct for many portions. Leave the busier FL airspace and it's
"cleared direct destination". I guess it's fewer words to say or
something. Amazing!

Doug Vetter wrote:

FYI, if you want to plan / file direct VFR, fine. But don't try that
IFR -- particularly in the northeast. It irritates the controllers, and
no surprise. The AIM specifies that you should file airways (sorry I
don't have the exact reference handy...but just read Don Brown's columns
on Avweb for more info). The entire ATC system (airspace boundaries,
etc.) are based on the airway system, and when you file direct, you
increase controller workload. Given the shortage of controllers, that's
just about the last thing you should do.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Maule Driver wrote:
I would say that is increasingly a NE issue. In the SE boonies (south
of the Wash ADIZ), once they see /G, they tend to clear you direct
*independent* of your plan. In FL my experience is that you will be
initially cleared on airways then either thru request or offer, you can
get direct for many portions. Leave the busier FL airspace and it's
"cleared direct destination". I guess it's fewer words to say or
something. Amazing!

It probably has more to do with traffic count per square mile (and
therefore workload), which is almost always lower in places other than
the northeast. Getting direct may also have something to do with getting
lucky, no matter where you fly.

Don Brown indicates that one of the chief reasons they hate pilots who
file direct (even out in the boonies where radio calls are made every
100 miles) is that if a direct courseline quickly crosses or nears
several sector boundaries (which can happen in both the horizontal or
vertical planes), they have to do tons of point outs and (lacking
successful communication with the neighboring controllers) radar
vectors, reroutes, and other hand-holding that would not have been
necessary had the pilot filed airways and avoided those trouble-spots in
the first place.

That said, on my way down the coast from New Jersey to Florida a couple
weeks ago, I was about 10 miles south of my second departure point
(Newport News, VA) when I was cleared to my destination (N. Myrtle
Beach, Grand Strand) 225NM out -- a personal direct-to distance record
under IFR. Of course, V1 is almost a straight line between the two
airports and more or less equivalent to a direct-to route (thus I was
getting lucky) but in general I agree with you that you are certainly
more likely to get direct in places OTHER than the northeast.

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Maybe ATC in the SE Atlantic seaboard have somehow 'broken the code' on
handling direct. I swear that your experience with direct to N Myrtle
is becoming the norm rather than the exception. Between the Wash ADIZ
and Jacksonville I've been filing airways and getting cleared direct
without requesting it. And I'm filing the airways to avoid SUAs that
clog the airspace. The interesting part is that for someone like me
flying at 9 or below, flights typically involve center and multiple
approaches with constant switching. And yet I'm getting cleared direct
3 or 4 handoffs out from my destination. Who knows, it may be
particular to the routes.

I don't know who Doug Brown is but I'm going to continue to be pretty
aggressive in filing and/or requesting direct where I consider it a
reasonable request. And I expect to get it more often than not outside
of those areas where it just isn't doable (ADIZ, Phille/NY corridor, FL
ooastal routes). It's working better than one might expect in my
experience. I'll have to get out more....

Doug Vetter wrote:
Maule Driver wrote:

I would say that is increasingly a NE issue. In the SE boonies (south
of the Wash ADIZ), once they see /G, they tend to clear you direct
*independent* of your plan. In FL my experience is that you will be
initially cleared on airways then either thru request or offer, you
can get direct for many portions. Leave the busier FL airspace and
it's "cleared direct destination". I guess it's fewer words to say or
something. Amazing!


It probably has more to do with traffic count per square mile (and
therefore workload), which is almost always lower in places other than
the northeast. Getting direct may also have something to do with getting
lucky, no matter where you fly.

Don Brown indicates that one of the chief reasons they hate pilots who
file direct (even out in the boonies where radio calls are made every
100 miles) is that if a direct courseline quickly crosses or nears
several sector boundaries (which can happen in both the horizontal or
vertical planes), they have to do tons of point outs and (lacking
successful communication with the neighboring controllers) radar
vectors, reroutes, and other hand-holding that would not have been
necessary had the pilot filed airways and avoided those trouble-spots in
the first place.

That said, on my way down the coast from New Jersey to Florida a couple
weeks ago, I was about 10 miles south of my second departure point
(Newport News, VA) when I was cleared to my destination (N. Myrtle
Beach, Grand Strand) 225NM out -- a personal direct-to distance record
under IFR. Of course, V1 is almost a straight line between the two
airports and more or less equivalent to a direct-to route (thus I was
getting lucky) but in general I agree with you that you are certainly
more likely to get direct in places OTHER than the northeast.

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Doug Vetter wrote:


Don Brown indicates that one of the chief reasons they hate pilots who
file direct (even out in the boonies where radio calls are made every
100 miles) is that if a direct courseline quickly crosses or nears
several sector boundaries (which can happen in both the horizontal or
vertical planes), they have to do tons of point outs and (lacking
successful communication with the neighboring controllers) radar
vectors, reroutes, and other hand-holding that would not have been
necessary had the pilot filed airways and avoided those trouble-spots in
the first place.

This is a typical FAA attitude that is very difficult to overcome.
Don't do something that is convenient to you because I then have to work
too hard. Or change what I have been doing for the last 50 years. Busy
airspace is one thing but to say they hate pilots filing direct because
that line nicks other sectors and airspaces is assinine.

I haven't filed a VFR flight plan for a lonnnggggg time. I use Flight
Following
or if I'm current an IFR plan.


"Michael 182" wrote in message
...
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight
plan, with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my
planning is of the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety -
but it is rare for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my
"plan", and I almost never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe
it's because I live in the west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont -
Amarillo - Austin, or if the winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do
others do?

Michael

I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country?

Sure. Especially for long, low XCs. I find it very convenient to have
waypoints, frequencies, "things to watch for", and other stuff all laid
out neatly on a sheet of paper in the cockpit.

One of the additional things I add on my sheet is runway layout and FBO
I'm using. I pre-plan that to avoid surprizes like outrageous parking
fees (which would be free across the field) and such.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Not sure whether you are referring to a flight plan with ATC or a the
kind of plan you do to estimate headings, times, and fuel for planning
purposes.

I never file VFR. Often file IFR.

Almost always fly for travel and usually have someone on the other end
curious about when to pick us up. So, I'm always interested in at least
how long it will take to get there. With the winds on ADDS, I love to
plan the optimal altitude for favorable winds. The accuracy is amazing
and the findings sometimes surprising (e.g. headwinds being
substantially less at 8,000 than at 6,000 on a given day). $3.50 fuel
and a slow plane make the exercise valuable on even 1 hour flights.

GPS makes heading calcs unneccessary. Duats provides accurate winds and
dead reckoning flight plans. GPS groundspeed allows detailed wind
soundings during the climb. Again, amazing how accurate ADDS winds are.

Major victory flying Raleigh NC to Tampa FL non-stop both ways last
weekend. Planned IFR both legs with 1 stop. Detailed wind information,
10 mins of cloud flying, range extenders, and a sleeping passenger
allowed non-stoppers of 4.5 and 5 hours (it was worth it).

Michael 182 wrote:
I'm kind of curious - does anyone with more than 100 hours do a flight plan,
with winds and all, before they fly cross country? Most of my planning is of
the fuel stop, or occasionally detour for weather variety - but it is rare
for me to include more than one or two waypoints in my "plan", and I almost
never file an airway, even when I file ifr. Maybe it's because I live in the
west. A typical flight plan will be Longmont - Amarillo - Austin, or if the
winds are good, Longmont - Austin. What do others do?

Michael

In article ,
says...


Not sure whether you are referring to a flight plan with ATC or a the
kind of plan you do to estimate headings, times, and fuel for planning
purposes.

I never file VFR. Often file IFR.



Yes - I think I also answered off-topic a bit. I thought we were talking about
flight plans, when reading more carefully I realize we were talking more about
flight planning. As I said before, I think VFR flight plans are frequently a
bother, and do not enhance safety that much, particularly if you plan to use
flight following.

I do not feel the same about flight planning. I did my PPL some years ago, but
I still make up a log sheet for long flights, and I measure the distaznce
between waypoints. Nothing like 10nm waypoints - frequently 25 or 30nm, but I
do feel better prepared if I've studied the map. With a GPS *AND* DME it's
pretty hard to justify doing all the calcuations and wind corrections, except
that it gives you something to do - If you're in a Skyhawk, screaming along at
110KTAS but with an ultra-modern panel, it's like the extra capabilities of
the latter help to compensate the shortcomings of the former!

My detailed, annotated course lines have been reduced to little more than a
light pencil trace on the sectional, and a sheet with mostly frequencies on
it, but some waypoints, distances and altitude changes as well.

Recently, I had a radio problem, on a day with a pretty strong wind, and
marginal visibility. In dealing with the problem I let myself get off course a
few nm. I ended up west of an airfield I had planned to fly east of, and
getting close to another class "D". OK, this was nowhere close to anything
really untoward happening - but it was useful to have all sorts of pertinent
info right in front of me on my "cheat sheet". I jot down (type out, actually)
anything I think may be useful along the way - mostly contact frequencies, and
some VOR crossing radials. Of course it would only take a minute to look any
of this up - but it was nice to have everything right there on one
kneeboard-sized page.

There's also an "administrative" justification. With pilots being responsible
to have accumulated "all pertinent information" about the flight, you always
wonder just how far an over-zealous inspector might go in insinuating you were
not fully prepared. What if my class D had been a class B, and I actually
violated it. I could easily find myself trying to explain to some unfriendly
folks once on the ground, and in that case it wouldn't hurt to be able to show
I had the weather and all "pertinent" data .

G Faris

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
. com...
Not sure whether you are referring to a flight plan with ATC or a the kind
of plan you do to estimate headings, times, and fuel for planning
purposes.

I always do a PLOG