Do I need DME or ADF in an IFR-certified GPS panel?

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:40:10 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
.. .

Without an ADF receiver, I would not be able to obtain the local
altimeter
setting at my home airport, and take advantage of lower minimums
available
with that information.

Not on 124.675?




No, the NDB transmits on 260.

Duh!

You're at KEMP (Emporia, KS) right?
--------------------
Airport Communications
CTAF/UNICOM: 122.8
WX ASOS: 124.675 (620-343-3733)

-------------------

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:40:10 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
.. .

Without an ADF receiver, I would not be able to obtain the local
altimeter
setting at my home airport, and take advantage of lower minimums
available
with that information.

Not on 124.675?




No, the NDB transmits on 260.

Duh!

You're at KEMP (Emporia, KS) right?

Whoops...never mind. KEPM, not KEMP.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:20:34 -0500, No Spam wrote:

Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

I find the DME to be an excellent cross reference on both IFR airways
and approaches.

I would pull the ADF though. It's use is minimal, and with XM/Sirius
radio, who needs AM anyway?

From a resale standpoint the DME is going to offer a higher value than
the ADF.

All this assumes you are posting/flying from the States. I believe
other countries still require ADF either for IFR flight or for many of
the approaches.

-Nathan

Nathan,

I believe
other countries still require ADF either for IFR flight or for many of
the approaches.


DME required for IFR here in Germany - and ADF in training aircraft. Big
problem for Cirrus, which doesn't have the panel space for another box.
They will sell you some kind of remote DME box, as I udnerstand it.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:20:34 -0500, No Spam wrote:

Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

Depending on where you are the ADF might be useful. I bet the DME
would be more useful overall, though. Does the presence of an actual
ADF or DME open up any approaches you can use when filing alternates
that the GPS alone doesn't because of the anti-substitution rules?

No Spam wrote:
Looking for thoughts out there...

If I have an IFR-certified GPS (terminal, not just enroute), is there any
reason to keep a DME or ADF in the panel? (Other than being able to listen
to am radio or tracking "non-offical" navaids - e.g., am radio stations!)

I just installed a GNS480/MX20/SL30 combo. I kept my old DME for no
particularly good reason other than it was a fairly recent King one
and I had the panel space. It means if my 480 crumps I can still
fly a ILS/DME approach into Dulles.

As for non-official navaids, you can drop an GPS waypoint anywhere
in the world and the 480 will drive the autopilot right to it.

As for ball games, my MX20 receives XM Radio as a side effect of
getting the weather downloads.

There is, in fact, a requirement to be able to fly the approach at your
alternate without the use of GPS. So having DME will assist you in
finding legal alternates that have VOR/DME approaches. This will allow
you to carry less fuel and more payload. Without DME or ADF, all you
can fly is a VOR approach, and if you have radar, an ILS or LOC (maybe
a few obscure others). Even then some ILS's require DME or ADF.

DME is a nice option to have with an IFR GPS VOR/GS setup. But you can
get by without it. Also, I think Marker Beacons are nice to have,
though not legally required for ILS's. It is good to have that aural
warning at the middle marker.

Doug wrote:

Also, I think Marker Beacons are nice to have,
though not legally required for ILS's. It is good to have that aural
warning at the middle marker.

IIRC, there are also approaches that have lower minimums for the ILS with an MBR
than without.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

George Patterson wrote:
Doug wrote:


Also, I think Marker Beacons are nice to have,
though not legally required for ILS's. It is good to have that aural
warning at the middle marker.


IIRC, there are also approaches that have lower minimums for the ILS
with an MBR than without.

It used to be that there was a penalty for no middle marker. This was
done away with almost a decade ago. The FAA doesn't take markers
seriously anymore. Unless it's a compass locator with some other
navigational function, they're pretty much ignored.

Doug wrote:

There is, in fact, a requirement to be able to fly the approach at your
alternate without the use of GPS. So having DME will assist you in
finding legal alternates that have VOR/DME approaches. This will allow
you to carry less fuel and more payload. Without DME or ADF, all you
can fly is a VOR approach, and if you have radar, an ILS or LOC (maybe
a few obscure others). Even then some ILS's require DME or ADF.

My home airport has an ILS approach with ADF required, but I just
figured I could use the GPS to substitute for the ADF. From what I
understand of the above, that's true but that also means my airport's
ILS approach is not a legal alternate for someone planning a GPS
somewhere else, do I understand that right? (I'm an instrument
student, still learning this stuff and have found this thread fascinating).