Starting new C172s

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:35:59 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


Note added 06/06/02: Later data strongly suggests the boost pump be run on
the highest setting for AT LEAST 60 full seconds, by the clock, and 90
seconds is better.
The electric boost pump is usually located somewhere outside the engine
compartment, and thus has no problems with bubbly fuel. What you're doing
here is to circulate cool fuel into and through the engine-driven fuel pump,
up to the fuel control unit, and then back through the vapor return lines to
the fuel tank. The idea is that when you do crank the engine, the
engine-driven pump will really pump liquid fuel, and not starve on bubbles.
A normal start should result. While cranking, you might need a quick shot on
the boost pump to help the cold fuel get beyond the fuel control unit, and
blow out the lines to the fuel distributor ("spider"), and the tiny lines to
each cylinder. But make sure it's really quick, otherwise you risk flooding
the engine.


I had read of this method for starting a hot fuel injected engine,
but the article I read didn't say anything about which fuel injected
engines had the return to the tank line. Does this apply to "all"
fuel injected engines of the Lycoming/Continental types, flat
four/sixes in all aircraft? I guess my question is... is the vapor
return line common to all aircraft manufacturers?

Ron Kelley

My hot start technique is all levers full forward. Run boost pump until
pressure reaches its max, this is 5-7 seconds, then turn boost pump off.
Pull throttle all the way out and then back in about two turns.
Start the engine. Always starts on first try.

Continental or Lycoming?
I have found Continental/s to be easy to hot start because of the return
line.
Lycoming's are much more difficult, in my experience.

On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:30:25 GMT, OP wrote:

snip

I had read of this method for starting a hot fuel injected engine,
but the article I read didn't say anything about which fuel injected
engines had the return to the tank line. Does this apply to "all"
fuel injected engines of the Lycoming/Continental types, flat
four/sixes in all aircraft? I guess my question is... is the vapor
return line common to all aircraft manufacturers?

The method described (WOT, ICO, boost pump on) is used to clear a TCM
classic fuel injection system, which will have a return line. If the
"aircraft manufacturer" is using an engine/s with this type of fuel
injection, it will have a return line/s. It can be important on some
aircraft to know how many "return lines" are present, and which tank/s
they are connected to.

A RSA/Bendix system will not have a return line. On the airframes that
I am allegedly familiar with, running the boost pump in this manner
will not accomplish much. But if it makes you (collective you) feel
better, go for it.

The typical RSA/Bendix "hot start" issue is not vaporised fuel in the
pump/lines causing a too-lean start, it is the fuel "boiling" out of
the hard injector lines into the engine induction system along with an
over-zealous application of boost pump-throttle-mixture to over-prime
an engine that often doesn't need priming at all.

I've never personally seen a Lycoming with a TCM classic system, but
there are a few TCM's flying around with RSA/Bendix systems.

TC

snip

Peter R. wrote:

Newps wrote:


You wouldn't believe the number of numbnuts out there who
fly final at 100 mph or more. Right now I can comfortably fly final at
75 MPH although the book speed for my weight is 68 MPH so I have some
more practice to do.


I do believe it, as I bought my Bonanza from one such pilot. During my
transition to the Bonanza and just after I bought the aircraft, he and I
took a flight to a nearby airport. Just after my landing, he tersely
lectured me because the stall warning horn went off just before the wheels
touched down. Apparently he gets very nervous with approach speeds lower
than about 95 kts.

What model did you purchase again?

I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.

john smith wrote:

My hot start technique is all levers full forward. Run boost pump until
pressure reaches its max, this is 5-7 seconds, then turn boost pump off.
Pull throttle all the way out and then back in about two turns.
Start the engine. Always starts on first try.


Continental or Lycoming?
I have found Continental/s to be easy to hot start because of the return
line.
Lycoming's are much more difficult, in my experience.

I've got the IO-520.

Newps wrote:

I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space.

Again, congratulations. Sounds like a beauty. Perhaps we will run across
each other at some future ABS event.


--
Peter
























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"Newps" wrote in message
...

I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.

The first time my wife rode in our, after our POS T210 (ours was a lemon),
said it was like riding in a Caddy or Mercedes after being in a Yugo.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Peter R. wrote:
Newps wrote:


I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space.


Again, congratulations. Sounds like a beauty. Perhaps we will run across
each other at some future ABS event.

Possibly, although you'll be more likely to find me on a backwoods strip
somewhere trying to find out where the trout are hiding. I have heard
stories of Bo pilots being, ah, a little stuffy. If I run in to that
you'd never see me at a Bo event again. I don't suffer morons.

Matt Barrow wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.


The first time my wife rode in our, after our POS T210 (ours was a lemon),
said it was like riding in a Caddy or Mercedes after being in a Yugo.

My wife is five foot nuthin'. As soon as she sat in it and saw she
could use the spar as a footrest I got the green light.

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:41:41 -0600, Newps wrote
in ::

I have a 64 S35, first year with the IO520 and the first year as a six
seater so as a four seater you have a lot of cargo space. One of the
first things you notice is these things are really put together.
Cessnas and Pipers are flimsy beer cans compared to a Bonanza, of course
thats also why the empty weight is 230 pounds more.

You probably haven't had your Bonanza long enough to answer this
question, but how do you find the cost of maintenance? I have heard
that Raytheon charges exorbitant prices for parts.

Back in the late 90s I made a short trip from John Wayne Airport to
Van Nuys to pick up a passenger. The owner of the FBO from whom I
rented the aircraft for the flight asked if I might pick up a set of
generator brushes for him. I intended to pick up my passenger at the
Raytheon ramp on KVNY, so I agreed to bring the parts back with me.
The cost for two generator brushes (for clarity, these are about the
size of a half stick of blackboard chalk and made of carbon). The
bill was about $200.00! I was shocked. When I worked at the
electrical wholesale house in the 70s, we sold similar brushes for
$0.50 each.

So what has been the experience of other Bonanza owners with regard to
maintenance costs?

[crossposted to rec.aviation.owning]