ILS critical area when the tower is closed?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news


How many fields are there where this is a concern? I would expect most
fields with the congestion to require marked ILS critical areas to have
full-time towers.


I can't provide a cite, but I was told recently that there are ILS
critical areas at part-time towered airports.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

I'm not sure that's the only time it's a problem. It just the minimum
that the tower is required to keep the area clear. I would expect that
ILS can be interfered with regardless of the current weather.



Certainly, but if the weather's good how is that a problem?

It's a problem during a coupled approach especially if the pilot is
planning to do an autoland.

wrote:

I can't provide a cite, but I was told recently that there are ILS
critical areas at part-time towered airports.

Schenectady County Airport, KSCH, is a part time towered airport with an
ILS critical area.

--
Peter
























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On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:17:55 -0500, Mike H wrote:



Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 11:28:09 -0800, Mark Hansen
wrote:


In this month's AOPA Flight Training magazine, I read an article
which implied there was still some requirement to remain clear of
the ILS critical area even when the tower was closed.

I've been looking through the AIM, and can't find anything like
this. It does say that when the tower is open, it will keep the
area clear when there is an aircraft past the FAF and the weather
is below 800/2.

Is there a rule which states that the ILS critical area must be
kept clear at any time when the tower is not in operation?

Can you please provide a reference?

Thanks,



All I can find is a statement in the AIM that the ILS critical area is NOT
protected at uncontrolled fields; so y'all be careful out there!


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
At many airports, such as my home field, KRYY, the glideslope is "unusable" when the
tower is closed... Perhaps that is some additional 'protection'....


What other airports are like that?

I've not flown into any fields where the GS is "unusable" when the tower is
closed, and there are certainly many fields with ILS's and no towers at
all.

Does RYY even have an ILS critical area? I can't tell from my charts.

There's no ILS Hold line marked on the airport diagram.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:51:09 -0600, A Lieberman
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 01:31:40 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mike H" wrote in message
. ..

At many airports, such as my home field, KRYY, the glideslope is
"unusable" when the tower is closed... Perhaps that is some additional
'protection'....


At many airports? I can't think of any other. Any idea why the GS is
unusable when the tower is closed?

Steve,

I've seen it myself. One that comes to mind is HKS.

On the approach plate, says when tower closed, GS unusable.

Does HKS have an ILS critical area?

I don't see an ILS hold line on my charts.

Don't forget, the premise of this particular sub-thread is that making the
GS unusable when the tower is closed is a method of protecting the ILS
critical area. But if the GS is unusable for some other reason, then ...

Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

In article yW9gf.1260$pF.1150@fed1read04, wrote:

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news


How many fields are there where this is a concern? I would expect most
fields with the congestion to require marked ILS critical areas to have
full-time towers.


I can't provide a cite, but I was told recently that there are ILS
critical areas at part-time towered airports.

HPN has one. Two actually, one at each end.

I did a quick survey (via the airport diagrams available on airnav) of
part-time towers I know around here that have ILS's. None of OCX, FRG,
ISP, MMU, POU, BDR, and HVN appear to have ILS critical areas (at least
none that are charted on the airport diagram), but HPN does.

Interestingly enough, at both ends of the runway at HPN, the ILS Hold Short
lines are only on the taxiways on the left side (as viewed from the
approach) of the runway, which is the side the GS antenna is on in both
cases.

the weather is below 800/2, in which case only IFR departures
will be of concern

People may be taxiing around the airport with no intention of taking
off, for example, to fuel up, to do maintanance, or to more the aircraft.

I suppose such an aircraft could call departure first, to ensure that
such operation will not interfere with anybody on approach.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..

Golly, Steve, unless it is a departure from a Class G airport with
controlled airspace at 700 feet, the surface area must belong to someone,
right? Class E down to the ground? Whatever facility has made a slot into
which a valid time departure will fit?


Sure, there could be a Class E surface area, but the overlying TRACON or
ARTCC that owns that airspace has no authority over the runways.

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

I've seen it myself. One that comes to mind is HKS.

On the approach plate, says when tower closed, GS unusable.

Delta airspace that underlies JAN Charlie airspace....


I didn't say they didn't exist, I just said I was not aware of any. So I
think he's overstating it a bit when he says the glideslope is unusable when
the tower is closed at many airports.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

Interestingly enough, at both ends of the runway at HPN, the ILS Hold
Short
lines are only on the taxiways on the left side (as viewed from the
approach) of the runway, which is the side the GS antenna is on in both
cases.


If there was no access to the side on which the GS is sited there'd be no
need to protect the GS critical area.