Private Planes: Freedom, Security, and Responsibility

Regarding security, I think you ask the $99 question: "What reasonable
standard exists to protect the public without infringing too much on
the right of the law-abiding?" Trade-offs suck, but when we have
psychotic terrorists killing our citizens, using our "freedoms" to their
twisted advantage, I think everyone would agree that their needs to be
some restrictions on personal liberty.

It's "there needs to be". Spelling aside, I do =not= agree with this at
all. It is the price of freedom. Freedom disappears long before
security appears.

My criticisms of GA are limited mostly to complete lack of community
control over any aspect of airport operations at many facilities.

If every town set its own flight rules, flying would become so
impractical as to disappear. Noise rules =are= a kind of flight rules.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
wrote:

Come on, Sky-buffoon... Who could have ever imagined airliners being
used in such an insidious and evil way before 9/11?

Didn't one of those "Jack Ryan" novels have an airliner deliberately
crashed
into Congress?

- Andrew


Yep in Debt of Honor by a senior Japan Air pilot.

"Skylune" wrote in message
Regarding security, I think you ask the $99 question: "What reasonable
standard exists to protect the public without infringing too much on
the right of the law-abiding?" Trade-offs suck, but when we have
psychotic terrorists killing our citizens, using our "freedoms" to their
twisted advantage, I think everyone would agree that their needs to be
some restrictions on personal liberty.

Only nut cases like you would think such a thing.

"Skylune" wrote in
lkaboutaviation.com:

Snipola
I need to pull out the handy John Adams quote again: "Facts are stubborn
things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates
of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."

Pot - kettle - black.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
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Yes, they are new and no, they are not really reasonable,
they do not look at a Canadian of Irish descent and
differently than they do for a Muslim from a refugee camp in
Palestine.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
| by "Jim Macklin"
Dec 14, 2005 at
| 03:08 PM
|
|
| All non-US citizens begin flight training are required to
| submit a fee of $150 and a complete history and
photographs
| before beginning flight training. All CFIs/flight schools
| are required to verify citizenship for all students and
may
| not train a non-citizen until they are approved by the
TSA.
| There is an exception for already certificated pilots just
| getting recurrent training, etc
|
| Jim: The requirements for non citizens are new (post
9/11/01), aren't
| they? They seem pretty reasonable to me.
|
|
|

There are many sources you can look up. You will even find
reports of airline pilots killing attempted hijackers BEFORE
the date of the Cuban hijackings, which began after the PO
rescinded the requirement for armed pilots.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:bL%nf.29034$QW2.18759@dukeread08...
|
|
| BTW, Pilots on the airlines were required to be armed
before
| the mid-late 60's, to protect the mail. Your postman
| walking the street also often had a gun in his big
leather
| bag. But LBJs postmaster general took them away.
|
|
| Do you have a cite for that? I grew up at the airport
hanging around the
| Trans Texas Airlines (Later Texas International) office
and I think I'd
| remember after 65 or 66 if the pilots were carrying guns.
I know TTA was
| carrying airmail because one of my Grandfathers side jobs
was taking the
| mail from the post office to the airport.
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Your postman
walking the street also often had a gun in his big leather
bag. But LBJs postmaster general took them away.


Interesting. It could have given a whole new meaning to the phrase
"going postal". I'd hate to be working in the sorting room on
Publisher's Clearinghouse day :-)

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Going "postal" never happened when there were many armed
people present, it is only possible for mass shootings in
public place to happen when the victims are unarmed and the
shooter knows and expects this condition. Crazy people are
not stupid, only crazy.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Your postman
| walking the street also often had a gun in his big
leather
| bag. But LBJs postmaster general took them away.
|
|
| Interesting. It could have given a whole new meaning to
the phrase
| "going postal". I'd hate to be working in the sorting
room on
| Publisher's Clearinghouse day :-)
|
| John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

FAR 25 requires that the pressurized aircraft be able to
withstand explosions, engine disintegration and maintain a
livable cabin with a 20 sq. ft. hole. That size hole would
require about 1/2 a ton of bullets.

Cite?

A hole the size of a twin bed is pretty BIG!


Jack

("Skylune" wrote)
I'm fairly certain that new security requirements have been established
for foreign-born trainees.

I'm not buying the McVeigh/Ryder truck analogy. I'm pretty sure that
people purchasing large quantities of nitrogen based products such as
fertilizer face some type of restrictions or scrutiny today, but I'm not
sure.


The 9-11 terrorists were turned in, by GA, to the FBI and other gov't
agencies with "security requirements." All of this was prior to 9-11. These
various gov't agencies dropped the ball - tripped up by their internal
"security requirements."

GA across the country said - Hey, these guys don't seem right ......nothing.

As far as your other hopeful belief in gov't protecting you, I used to sell
the stuff you're talking about - and deliver it. It is very easy to get your
hands on it, in bag or bulk. Pre-9-11 and post 9-11.


Montblack