Claus-Dieter Zink takes measures against Lowlands Cup team

Actually I'm not the first to use the word boycott in this thread and
the suggestion that not buying Mr. Zink's calendars would "quickly make
this go away" was posted by someone else as well.

The analogy of "rape victims" was in the context of character
assassination, not copyright infringement and I make no apology for it.

Raphael Warshaw
1LK


Doug Hoffman wrote:
wrote:

Character assassination is a popular and effective defense as any
number of politicians, whistle-blowers, CIA agents with out-of-favor
husbands, rape victims, etc. can tell you.

I personally find it very inappropriate to lump this issue in with
"rape victims" and so forth. We're talking about a few online gamers
who posted a picture in a website. Can we keep this in perspective?


Until the dust settles, I think it's completely inappropriate to be
urging a boycott of Mr. Zink's calendar.

After searching this thread I find that you are the first to use the
term "boycott". No one here has urged any kind of organized action
against purchases.


-Doug Hoffman

wrote:

So far, only one side seems to be talking. I suspect that, as is usual
in these situations, Mr. Zink has been advised by his attorney not to
make public statements while the case is in progress. We've got lots
of opinions and virtually no verified facts.

In resorting to the legal system (a much over used ploy in Germany, if
what I have heard is correct) Herr Zink has denied himself the
opportunity to present his version of the story. That is his choice, and
we need not be limited by it. His actions are not the sort which should
arouse much sympathy.

We will never have the "facts" in the case. What we do have is a
plausible complaint from one party and no response from the other,
except for a lone apologist who, quite remarkably, urges _us_ to pay the
alleged damages. Disregarding that bit of lunacy, what we are left with
amounts to a simple "no contest" plea on the part of Herr Zink, perhaps
indicating a return to sanity.

We do look forward to receiving Herr Zink's version of the story.
Whether he comes out of his shell or not, the final, official decision
should be publicised here for all the world to see.


Jack

I was responsible for the 'quickly make this go away'
quote. This has nothing to do with character assassination
but everything to do with doing business with trustworthy
people. I have no intention of ever entering into a
business transaction with anyone who carries on as
CDZ has done when there are so many people in the world
who do not resort to legal remedies at the drop of
a hat.
If CDZ has any business accumen at all he would realise
that the action he is taking can only harm his business,
it is cetainly not going to encourage anyone to do
business with him, matters little even if he is right.
I suppose I am suggesting that gliderpilots should
band together to help other members of our comminity,
is there something wrong with that?
First rule of selling, don't **** the customers off.


At 00:54 01 January 2006, wrote:
Actually I'm not the first to use the word boycott
in this thread and
the suggestion that not buying Mr. Zink's calendars
would 'quickly make
this go away' was posted by someone else as well.

The analogy of 'rape victims' was in the context of
character
assassination, not copyright infringement and I make
no apology for it.

Raphael Warshaw
1LK


Doug Hoffman wrote:
wrote:

Character assassination is a popular and effective
defense as any
number of politicians, whistle-blowers, CIA agents
with out-of-favor
husbands, rape victims, etc. can tell you.

I personally find it very inappropriate to lump this
issue in with
'rape victims' and so forth. We're talking about
a few online gamers
who posted a picture in a website. Can we keep this
in perspective?


Until the dust settles, I think it's completely inappropriate
to be
urging a boycott of Mr. Zink's calendar.

After searching this thread I find that you are the
first to use the
term 'boycott'. No one here has urged any kind of
organized action
against purchases.


-Doug Hoffman

Had to catch up on what I'd missed over New Years and have to say...

This one STINKS. Why in the heck is it that someone would actually let their
lawyer speak for them instead of just working out the situation in a
reasonable fashion? As an owner of copyrights and patents, I could never see
a situation where I'd go to my lawyer as a first method of resolution,
particularly not for something this innocuous.

Just out of curiosity...has anyone thought to re-direct the owner of the
picture, to the website which illegally posted it on the web without its
appropriate copyrights guards?? The thought of a judge upholding a suit for
someone who has suffered no damages seems like a frivolous worry...presuming
the German legal system is similar to the U.S. in a civil matter CDZ would
have had to have suffered provable "damages". Forcing someone to cease and
desist the use of his product is one thing, but...winning a judgment is
another.

For my two cents worth...I'll just not buy his calendar in support of the
Lowlands Cup lads and cough up a few bucks to help their cause. This
definitely isn't the way to show ones support of our little soaring
community and its patrons.



Steve.

jb92563 wrote:
why not just take a collection to PAY the 1400 Euro's
and be done with the whole problem.


This sounds like caving in to extortion.

I don't need a calendar...so I'm not boycotting...I'm just not buying!

This is bad press, for both sides. My images have been pilfered, too,
but since I don't rely on that to make my living, I suffer no
"damages."

Good luck to the Lolanders...I guess I'm just cheering for the little
guys (and habitually jeering the lawyers).

New update.

We tried to settle this with cdz in a friendly way. Didn't work. We are
now facing a higher threat and going to court.
Where will this lead to? Going to prison?

When you have a calendar of cdz, and look at the nice foto's, remember
that behind the photo is someone that seems only interested in money
and rather bring us to court than try to find a solution.

Any help in this case would be welcome. If you know CDZ please talk to
him and try to convince him that this is not what he wants.

For details and all correspondence with cdz etc. see:
http://lowlands.sytes.net

IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but...

.... I think the injunction the lawyer is threatening you with, will not
be enforcable since you already changed the picture on your website. As
far as I know, "einstweilige Verfügungen" (injunctions) are used to
set an immediate but temporary stop to an activity. I can't see how
this is applicable in your case.

.... I believe that only commercial sites need to have an impressum. I
am bot even sure if this is European law, in my mind this is just a
German thing.

.... I do not believe that the LLC team is constituting a GbR (manily
due to its non-commercial mission). This link seems to support that:
http://www.frankfurt-main.ihk.de/eng...t-up/idem/gbr/
Anyhow, how can German law can be used to prosecute an Internet
activity is beyond my understanding, but a sad fact nevertheless...

.... CDZ's case seems to be weakened since the picture in question was
indeed freely available on his site. However, you unknowingly violated
the license agreement by not stating the copyright on the LLC site. My
advise would be to get a German lawyer. The Glider community is a large
on, there clearly should be a kind fellow among the lawyer faction who
can help out..?

.......

As a sideliner, I am very troubled to say that I unfortunately already
ordered and received this year's "Fotokalender Segelflug"... As a
redemption I will transfer the same amount of money to your PayPal
account. The tone in CDZ's letters is irritatingly arrogant. This man
clearly has to be made aware of certain courtesy standards and limits.

I wish you all the best for your case!
Reno

_____________

Ronald Termaat wrote:
New update.

We tried to settle this with cdz in a friendly way. Didn't work. We are
now facing a higher threat and going to court.
Where will this lead to? Going to prison?

(...)

For details and all correspondence with cdz etc. see:
http://lowlands.sytes.net

Hi again,

yesterday evening I had a brief mail discussion with CDZ on that topic.
I don't know... he seems to be one of the "old Germans" who thinks that
the whole world would better speak their language... :-(
I explained the situation in detail to him - in German - and he
actually agreed that probably this conflict could have been avoided if
Vertigos first mails would have been in German. Since he does not speak
English, he throws away all non-German mails as spam. =:-o

Well, to me he seems to be a bitter man, his mails were full of
suppressed rage. I don't know if he always is like this, if he has far
too many copyright cases to deal with, or if he is annoyed over the
mails and telephone calls he gets on this current issue.

Anyway, our little chat did not change anything, he still blames the
LLC team for everything and he wants to see money. It was worth the
try, though...

/Reno

Knacklappen wrote:
IANAL (I am not a lawyer) but...


(...)

I wish you all the best for your case!
Reno

_____________

Knacklappen wrote:

Anyway, our little chat did not change anything, he still blames the
LLC team for everything and he wants to see money.

Too bad. The world doesn't like a bully. My opinion, this is going to
hurt CDZ himself more than anyone.

It was worth the try, though...

Thanks for trying.

Regards,

-Doug

Knacklappen wrote:

Anyway, our little chat did not change anything, he still blames the
LLC team for everything and he wants to see money.

Too bad. But the world doesn't like a bully. In my opinion this is
going to hurt CDZ himself the most.


It was worth the try, though...

Yes. Thanks for trying the gentleman's approach.

Regards,

-Doug