Class C Airspace Discussion

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

What I mean is, if they can't coordinate us into the airspace in
question, then they should cancel our radar services BEFORE we are in
it, give us the frequency and we negotiate with the agency in charge.


Yes, they should, but if they don't give you a frequency change before
entering the Class D airspace you should do it on your own.



Don't just vector us inside the airspace, and say goodbye without
coordinating with the agency in charge of THAT airspace. That is a
recipe for making EVERYONE mad, uncomfortable and ready to file some
paperwork, make some hot phone calls etc. Not good ATC work at all.....
And sorry about the double post above.....


What situation are you referring to? What vectors?

"M" wrote in message
ups.com...

This is correct. However if the center lets you keep your beacon code,
stays on his frequency and flies into the airspace of another ATC
facility (such as a class C airspace) w/o either arranging a handoff or
terminating the radar service, that center controller has goofed very
badly.


Not necessarily. You may have missed a radio call.

One instance where you can get vectors under VFR is in Class B
airspace. Then consider the instance where you are headed into an
underlying Class D airport. Does the Class B guy have a responsibility
to get you set up to enter the D properly?

Like I said, I don't know all the rules and can't possible know them
all, but they should make sense. Doesn't make sense to me to get flight
following and then have the flight following guy NOT tell you about, or
get you set up for, entering airspace that requires communication,
clearance etc. At the very least he should cancel your flight following
well before you enter, if he doesn't want to coordinate the entry.

"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...

One instance where you can get vectors under VFR is in Class B
airspace.


I believe you mean one instance where ATC may initiate vectoring of VFR
aircraft, VFR aircraft can get vectors wherever they are in radar contact.



Then consider the instance where you are headed into an
underlying Class D airport. Does the Class B guy have a responsibility
to get you set up to enter the D properly?


Possibly, but it depends on local procedures.



Like I said, I don't know all the rules and can't possible know them
all, but they should make sense. Doesn't make sense to me to get flight
following and then have the flight following guy NOT tell you about, or
get you set up for, entering airspace that requires communication,
clearance etc.


Perhaps what you don't understand is flight following. Flight following is
simply radar traffic advisories, nothing more than that. How could the
radar controller providing flight following "get you set up for" entering
Class D airspace? He wouldn't necessarily know about other VFR traffic that
may affect pattern entry or which runway the tower intends to assign.



At the very least he should cancel your flight following
well before you enter, if he doesn't want to coordinate the entry.


Yes, he should. I believe we covered that thoroughly. But if he doesn't
and you enter Class D airspace unannounced the airspace bust is yours alone.
So don't do it. If the controller doesn't terminate flight following then
terminate it yourself and call the tower before entering.

That of course could be the case, especially when the center is busy.

VFR aircraft can get vectors wherever they are in radar contact.

Can they? I thought outside of class A or B, VFR traffic can only get
"suggestions".

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
...

VFR aircraft can get vectors wherever they are in radar contact.


Can they?


Yup.



I thought outside of class A or B, VFR traffic can only get "suggestions".


You don't find much VFR traffic in Class A airspace. There are limitations
on where ATC can INITIATE vectoring of VFR aircraft, but the only
limitations on where VFR aircraft CAN be vectored are radar and radio
coverage. They need only request them.

You snipped a key portion of my sentence.

When I'm receiving flight following from Denver Approach I am always told to
contact the Class D tower (Jeffco, Centennial, Front Range) before entering
their airspace.

Right. And they cut you loose in time to do so.

RFD didn't cut Mary loose until we were inside JVL's Class D --
something they had never done before.

We're smarter now, and cut THEM loose.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

There are limitations
on where ATC can INITIATE vectoring of VFR aircraft, but the only
limitations on where VFR aircraft CAN be vectored are radar and radio
coverage. They need only request them.

This is news to me. I thought... differently.

You snipped a key portion of my sentence.

I didn't think it was a key point. That's a natural consequence of the
opportunity to learn.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

RFD didn't cut Mary loose until we were inside JVL's Class D --
something they had never done before.


How did they prevent Mary from calling JVL tower prior to entering Class D
airspace?