tailwheel endorsement

but do you have an
official definition of "rating limitation" to use to properly understand
61.31(k)(2)(ii)?

No, but the definition of rating is implicit in its use in that same
section. 61.31.... (a) type rating required... (c) aircraft category,
class, and type ratings... (d) aircraft category, class, and type
ratings... and then (e), (f), and (g) specify "training", not "rating".

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote

but do you have an
official definition of "rating limitation" to use to properly
understand 61.31(k)(2)(ii)?

No, but the definition of rating is implicit in its use in that same
section. 61.31.... (a) type rating required... (c) aircraft category,
class, and type ratings... (d) aircraft category, class, and type
ratings... and then (e), (f), and (g) specify "training", not
"rating".

Anything pertaining to "rating" is a certificate action accomplished by
either an FAA Inspector or a Designated Examiner.
Anything pertaining to "training" may be accomplished and endorsed by
an Authorized Instructor.

Bob Moore
Authorized Instructor

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
Anything pertaining to "rating" is a certificate action accomplished by
either an FAA Inspector or a Designated Examiner.
Anything pertaining to "training" may be accomplished and endorsed by
an Authorized Instructor.

Agreed. But is required training (and in particular, training required by
61.31(i)) a "rating limitation"?

I think the endorsement has to reference 61.31 as well as
the other parts of 61.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
...
| Still the student pilot must have a solo endorsement for
| each make and model on the student pilot certificate and
a
| 90 day solo endorsement in the logbook to be qualified
to
| take the practical test.
|
| Ok, would this suffice as a (permanent) tailwheel
endorsement?
|
| Jose
| --
| The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Peter Duniho wrote

Agreed. But is required training (and in particular, training
required by 61.31(i)) a "rating limitation"?

No...Fist because it can be endorsed by an Authorized Instructor
and second probably because it comes under the second part of the
title of 61.31 which contains three distinct items:
"Section 61.31: Type rating requirements, additional training, and
authorization requirements".
Since the tailwheel requirement is specifically labeled:
"(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes."
This would seem to exclude it from the "Type Rating Requirements".

Bob Moore

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
Agreed. But is required training (and in particular, training
required by 61.31(i)) a "rating limitation"?

No...Fist because it can be endorsed by an Authorized Instructor
and second probably because it comes under the second part of the
title of 61.31 which contains three distinct items:
"Section 61.31: Type rating requirements, additional training, and
authorization requirements".

Well, if it's not a "rating limitation", then 61.31(k) doesn't apply.

Got a different exception? So far, as near as I can tell, a student pilot
DOES need the tailwheel endorsement for solo flight.

Pete

Well, if it's not a "rating limitation", then 61.31(k) doesn't apply.

Sounds to me that that clinches it. So a student pilot would need the
endorsement before solo, and would therefore already have the
endorsement by the time he took the checkride, and it would still be
valid (since there is nothing to invalidate it).

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:39:28 GMT, Jose
wrote:

If a student pilot takes all his training in a tailwheel aircraft
(including solo), but takes his flight test in a nosedragger, does the
newly minted private pilot need a separate tailwheel endorsement?

He will get the endorsement as a matter of course.

I thought it would have been given prior to solo, but I see that mine
is dated *after* my flight test! Evidently the instructor overlooked
it. So perhaps you should nudge the CFI.





-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:09:37 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

Got a different exception? So far, as near as I can tell, a student pilot
DOES need the tailwheel endorsement for solo flight.

As I just posted (sorry! I'm late to this thread), I didn't have it
until after I'd gotten my certificate. But I suspect this was an
oversight.

If you-all like, I'll ask the instructors at the airport, which does
all its primary training in Cubs.

Note however that even when flying solo, the student is under the
supervision of the instructor, so that may obviate the need for the
endorsement. In my case, the instructor (now a friend) actually drove
up from the neighboring state on each of my cross-country solo flights
and sat around the airport for hours at no pay; he was that meticulous
about supervising.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

Peter Duniho wrote

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
Agreed. But is required training (and in particular, training
required by 61.31(i)) a "rating limitation"?

No...Fist because it can be endorsed by an Authorized Instructor
and second probably because it comes under the second part of the
title of 61.31 which contains three distinct items:
"Section 61.31: Type rating requirements, additional training, and
authorization requirements".

Well, if it's not a "rating limitation", then 61.31(k) doesn't apply.

(k) Exceptions.
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to—
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate;

They can't apply since a student pilot certificate contains no ratings,
only training endorsements.

In addition, any 61.31(i)requirement for student pilots is more than
covered by 61.87c and 61.87n

Section 61.87n: Solo requirements for student pilots.

(n) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A
student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that
student pilot has received:

(1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student
pilot certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and

(2) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model
aircraft to be flown by an authorized instructor, who gave the training
within the 90 days preceding the date of the flight.

Bob Moore