Busted TFR, what to expect?

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
kontiki wrote:

Not doing this shows a lack of piloting skilss, sorry but thats the truth.



It also shows a lack of spelling or typing skills. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Wow, thanks for pointing that out, as you state, my typing skills are
*essential* to the point of the post.

On 24 May 2006 19:57:34 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote in . com::

Can anyone on this list actually claim to check for TFRs for every
local flight in the pattern?

It would seem that those airmen who fail to check for TFRs before
every flight are in violation of:


http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...1.3.10&idno=14
§ 91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become
familiar with all available information concerning that flight.
This information must include— ...

bob wrote:
Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form?

Can't hurt can it?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
Can anyone on this list actually claim to check for TFRs for every
local flight in the pattern?

Yes. The only flight I've ever piloted without getting a briefing first was
my intro flight. Starting with the second lesson, my CFI had me get a
briefing before every flight, and I've done so ever since. If the weather is
obviously clear and calm, I may not bother to write down the briefing info,
but I'll still get the briefing. At a minimum, I either take a minute to
consult DUATS before leaving home or at the FBO, or else I talk to FSS for a
minute while I'm walking across the ramp to the plane. Skipping the briefing
would be like skipping a required part of the preflight inspection.

--Gary

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
. com...

"bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
So what can I expect? I've already figured out that the Secret Service
isn't going to arrest me. My biggest concern is what it will do to my
insurance costs when I renew next year. Should I bother filing the
NASA ASRS form? Since I'm a PP-ASEL and flying is a hobby, I don't
otherwise care a lot if my license is suspended for a time or I end up
with a record.

Definitely fill out a NASA report.

I agree. In addition to the protection from any enforcement action, it
provides useful safety information to NASA, which is the primary reason for
having the form.

The couple of people I know that have busted TFRs (President not VP) have
had nothing done other than a couple of questions.

My experience, too (though not with TFRs) is that ATC is reluctant to take
formal action with regard to inadvertent infringements that caused no harm.

I don't see how insurance companies could care, you didn't cost them
anything.

Insurance companies ask about enforcement actions; they wouldn't ask if they
didn't care. Presumably the reason they care is that an enforcement action
shows that a pilot was unable or unwilling to follow a reasonable safety
rule--which, in some future situation, could indeed cost the insurance
company money.

--Gary

I've had AOPA miss a few TFR notifications. Many times the VIP schedule
changes too quickly for AOPA reaction and sometimes TFR NOTAMS arrive after
the VIP.

BT

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"JD" == John Doe writes:

JD I had my first experience with a VIP TFR last weekend. Bush
JD was in town and I had gotten an email from AOPA notifying me
JD of the TFR in my area.

Bush was in Sacto a few weeks ago and I too got the AOPA notification
by email. Because of that, and checking the extent of that TFR, I
decided not to risk it and simply didn't fly that weekend.

But for the TFR I violated, I didn't get a notice from AOPA. Why, I'm
not sure. And the local newspaper had nothing about Cheney's visit
until afterwards so I didn't know he was in town.

JD Luckily, I've learned to check NOTAMS prior to every flight,
JD and following the procedures, the TFR didn't delay me at all
JD in getting on my way.

I rarely check NOTAMS or get a briefing for local VFR flights, and
quite honestly I doubt I'll change my habits. The FAA should
recognize that using NOTAMs alone are not enough. Maybe they should
take email addresses and locations from pilots (kinda like AOPA) and
send notices when a TFR is going to pop up in a given area.

Maybe they could reserve a frequency just to broadcast important area
NOTAMs. Pilots would get in the habit of checking it before takeoff
and during flight. Maybe area NOTAMs could be added on to AWOS
broadcasts. Something?

Still haven't heard anything from the FSDO, but not much time has
passed. I'll post with whatever they eventually flog me with, but in
the meantime here's some comments on the comments:

Q. Why would NOTAMs on another frequency or AWOS be easier to check
than the current methods?
A. Current methods require one to check a web page or make a phone
call, an extra effort rather different from simply checking another
frequency. It's not so much the time involved, but the relatively
different task.

Q. Are there pilots that really check before EVERY flight?
A. Apparently so. And maybe I will join the ranks. But my computer
isn't on all the time and being Windoze takes a while to boot. Dialing
1-800-WX-BRIEF isn't difficult, maybe they could have a recording just
for major NOTAMs in the area (they already connect you to your regional
FSS station based on your calling phone number).

Q. Don't you check weather before every flight?
A. X-country, yes, local, no. It's a California thing I guess...ya
gotta live here a summer to understand.

Q. How would an email notification work, they don't know what airport
you're at?
A. Similar to AOPA's system, the FAA would setup a web page where
pilots voluntarily participating would submit their email address and
location (either state, zip code, or airport ID) and they would receive
emails for TFR and NOTAMs. This would help for the local flights where
many pilots don't get a briefing. The point being, no single method
will work, but an email notification system would be very cheap and
relatively effective for those participating. We might as well
recognize that for local VFR flights there are just a lot of pilots
that don't get briefings, so why not reduce the number of TFR
violations with a simple email system?

BTW, there's an interesting report about TFR violations at
http://www.volpe.dot.gov/opsad/docs/tfranalysis.pdf. Here's a
statistic that caught my eye: "...2900 violations in the two years
between June 2002 and June 2004 alone."

Obviously the current system isn't working well. Why not be practical
and implement additional notification methods to reduce the violation
rate?

In rec.aviation.misc Jon A wrote:
Your punishment is to go dove hunting with Cheney next year. That'll
teach ya!

I'd rather go dove hunting with Cheney than driving with Ted Kennedy!

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

bob wrote:

Obviously the current system isn't working well.

Hypothetically querying, how is someone who admits to not checking TFRs
capable of accurately commenting on the effectiveness of the system?

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
bob wrote:

Obviously the current system isn't working well.

Hypothetically querying, how is someone who admits to not checking TFRs
capable of accurately commenting on the effectiveness of the system?


Divine revelation.