Top Gun CUNNINGHAM: I broke the law, concealed my conduct and disgraced my office.

On 8 Jul 2006 10:41:37 -0700, "
wrote:


Ed Rasimus wrote:
Ever been on the wing in the weather at night in a single-seat jet?

Didn't think so. "Merely capable" translates as pretty damn good in
terms of most folks capabilities.

You're drifting off topic, Eddy. The topic isn't about whether I (or
any other poster, for that matter) has ever been a jet pilot. I
suspect most of the posters here, both conservative and liberal haven't
been. Are you putting us all down? The question is whether a
profoundly stupid mancan be a fighter pilot and also be elected to high
office.
The answer is obviouly "yes."

Since we've come to a first-name basis, Smackey, let me note that the
topic has been about fighter pilots and political office. You made the
"profoundly stupid" assertion without qualification.

While many posters here from both ends of the political spectrum
haven't been in the business, they also refrain from expressing
derogatory opinions about things of which they have little knowledge.

You seem unconstrained by that civility.

Can you describe how someone "profoundly stupid" can be a fighter
pilot? How do they overcome the hurdles to achieve that specialty? You
know, the degree, the commission, the physical requirements, the long
and competitive training program, the technology, maybe even the
intestinal fortitude to climb into a machine, load it with ten tons of
jet fuel and then light the ass on fire...or, maybe you're right!


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

A little one-sided isn't it?
Lots of R's but no D's.
You listed indicted, convicted and under investigation, but none
sentenced or impeached.

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 18:56:52 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:


"Duke" Cunningham is living proof that a profoundly stupid man can be a
fighter pilot and get elected to high office.

That's news?

Lemme see, is that a reference to the incumbent president? The one who
spent three times as long in military service and qualified to fly
single-seat, single-engine jets? The one with the Yale degree and the
Harvard MBA?

Or, is that somehow implying that flying military fighters is a simple
task? In combat?

I've encountered some unsophisticated tactical aviators along the way,
and even some folks populating fighter cockpits who were in no way,
shape or form, qualified to carry the title, Fighter Pilot. But I
don't know a single one that I would characterize as "profoundly
stupid".

You got any experience in that line?

I do a simple comparison for my students:

80,000 and change -- number of carrier aviators since Wilbur and Orville,
all nations
500,000 -- number of combat forces, all US services
700,000 -- number of MD's in the U.S.
1,000,000+ -- number of lawyers in the U.S. .... How hard can it be?

A combat aviator must combine quick reactions, extraordinary spatial
awareness, exceptional hand/eye coordination, mastery of a significant body
of knowledge, and superior decision making skills. More like a surgeon than
a dumb jock. Big difference? When the surgeon screws up, the patient dies.
When the aviator screws up, it's HIS (sometimes her) family that gets to
attend a funeral/memorial service.

R / John

Ed Rasimus wrote:
While many posters here from both ends of the political spectrum
haven't been in the business, they also refrain from expressing
derogatory opinions about things of which they have little knowledge.

You must be new to the group. Many of the posters express derogatory
opinions about things about which they have little knowledge...like
you. Do you know how smart W is?
If he is smart in your opinion, then I'm glad you're retired.

I don't know how someone profoundly stupid can be a fighter pilot and
get elected to high office.. I only know that at least one profoundly
stupid person became a fighter pilot and has been elected to the
highest office in the land. Apparantly others, not including me, have
characterized at least one other fighter pilot as such, also. I guess
the armed services aren't as picky as I had hoped they would be.

Can you describe how someone "profoundly stupid" can be a fighter
pilot?

See above.

How do they overcome the hurdles to achieve that specialty? You
know, the degree...

Be honest, there are alot of stupid college grads, especially if they
are "legacies"

...., the commission

Again, be honest, you've known some stupid officers


...the physical requirements,

doesn't take brains


....the long and competitive training program

perseverence, while a very admirable trait, does not equal intelligence

....the technology,

while aviation technology may seem complex to you, I'm not impressed
with the need for any particular intelligence to master it. While I'm
sure many here, including myself, would like to think that the ability
to operate aviation systems equates to all around intelligence, I'm
afraid you'll find that it only applies in a rather narrow context.
After all, if W is so smart how come he was a failure at every business
he had ever been in before he became president?

....maybe even the
intestinal fortitude to climb into a machine, load it with ten tons of
jet fuel and then light the ass on fire...or, maybe you're right!

Thank you; I am right. By your logic, suicide bombers are the smartest
people on the planet!

On 7-Jul-2006, "Gordon" wrote:

I agree. From the moment a person gets elected, he has to begin the
process of getting RE-elected, with all the ass-kissing and kow-towing
that such an accomplishment requires. End result is that instead of
following their own principles, a freshman representative ends up
having to adopt whatever positions and views their new benefactors can
coerce them to accept.

There's one exception I can think of: Senator Russ Feingold from Wisconsin.
No signs of corruption so far anyway, I should add. The guy certainly
stands up for what he believes no matter how unpopular it might be (the only
Senate vote against the Patriot Act for one), and to my knowledge no one has
ever accused him of kissing up to campaign contributors.
Scott Wilson

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 18:06:14 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote:


No. Unlike you, I don't have any experience being profoundly stupid.

We might get some objective evaluators here in the news group to
validate that now. I think you don't give your experience enough
credit.


Oh, that's gotta hurt.
--
If you want venality, if you want ignorance, if you want drunkenness,
and facility for being intimidated; or if, on the other hand, you
want impulsive, unreflecting, and violent people, where do you look
Do you go to the top or to the bottom?

Ed Rasimus wrote
Twoop!

Morgans wrote:
????

Ed's just checking in on the flight freq! ;-)


Jeff

Ed Rasimus wrote:
You might want to look beyond the media talking points. Even ANG
pilots are full time active duty for all of their UPT and operational
training. They then qualify for mission-ready in their unit of
assignment. GWB handled all of that for nearly five years.

It may be a media talking point to you, but it's true. W might have
been "mission ready" but only the most naive person in the world would
believe that he would have ever had to go. The man's whole life has
been one of privilege and benefit. John Kerry was also mission ready
and stepped up to the plate.

The flight physical issue is a red herring. His TX unit was
re-equipping with a different aircraft and a different mission. He
wasn't flying when he got attached to the Montgomery ANG unit which
was also transitioning from RF-84 to RF-4C and had NEITHER TYPE in
place at the period in question. In other words, no flying
opportunity, no requirement for a flight physical.

Doesn't sound "mission ready" to me. Are you saying that all the other
pilots in his unit skipped their physicals also?

The one with the Yale degree and the
Harvard MBA?

A legacy.

.. But, Harvard doesn't issue MBA's on legacy credentials.

And you know this how? Anyway, of course they don't issue them solely
on legacy credentials. In W's case, however, he relied on it.
Interestingly, one of W's B school profs recently reported that W was
not a good student but was not reluctant to remind everyone just who
his family was.

Or, is that somehow implying that flying military fighters is a simple
task? In combat?

Not saying it is simple, but it's not rocket science, either. He never
flew in combat...never even saw combat...never went to Nam (unlike his
last opponent).

No, he didn't go to Vietnam. At the time he went to UPT, the F-102
(from various ANG units) WAS being rotated through SEA and the
possibility for assignment existed. By the time he was operationally
ready, the aircraft was no longer being used in the limited mission it
had in SEA.

How convenient.

I've encountered some unsophisticated tactical aviators along the way,
and even some folks populating fighter cockpits who were in no way,
shape or form, qualified to carry the title, Fighter Pilot.

I didn't know you'd met W.

I haven't met him, but I'm a close friend of the guy who was GWB's
T-38 Instructor Pilot at in UPT. The guy flew F-105s with me as a 1/Lt
and we both went into the training business after our 100 missions
tours. He testifies to GWB's capabilities in the fighter business and
I've no reason to doubt him.

So, it's just a coincidence that some of his records have been lost
(like the DUI charges). Again, how convenient.

He's been to the White House twice in the
last three years on personal visits.

Oh, well then...


But I
don't know a single one that I would characterize as "profoundly
stupid".

You got any experience in that line?

No. Unlike you, I don't have any experience being profoundly stupid.

We might get some objective evaluators here in the news group to
validate that now. I think you don't give your experience enough
credit.

Actually, I don't need appraisal by others. My educational and
professional accomplishments are enough, thank you.

john smith writes:

A little one-sided isn't it?
Lots of R's but no D's.
You listed indicted, convicted and under investigation, but none
sentenced or impeached.

I found one D on the list. I don't off the top of my head know of any
other recent ones he missed, but I make no claims to expertise,
either. If you know some, point them out. Perhaps he intends the
list to be as fair and balanced *as the facts allow* veg.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 18:06:14 GMT, Ed Rasimus wrote:

No. Unlike you, I don't have any experience being profoundly stupid.

We might get some objective evaluators here in the news group to
validate that now. I think you don't give your experience enough
credit.

Aren't you supposed to make some type of "fox" call before releasing
live ordnance?...

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm