Banning mogas at the airport...

Around here if you farm less than 500 acres it's a hobby farm.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:xCkug.77193$ZW3.44035@dukeread04...
A lot of small farmers like to use the 1950's Ford and Allis
Chalmers or John Deere tractors because they are cheap and
do the light jobs, such as mowing, or the garden without the
complexity of the new $50,00+ tractors that can't be fixed
outside the factory shop.

You can put a fuel caddy on a trailer or a tank in your
pickup truck without getting involved with EPA fuel storage
licensing issue. Just as long as it is on wheels. But a
mounted tank or buried tank system gets very expensive.

State, federal and sometimes local jurisdictions will have
rules. There are fuel storage rules and fuel dispensing
rules under EPA and fire codes.


"Morgans" wrote in message
...
|
| "Dave Stadt" wrote
|
| It would be very easy to prove or disprove. Drive
around and count farms
| with stationary tanks and those without stationary
tanks.
|
| Be my guest! g
|
| Farmers don't
| have to pay road tax so filling up at the local gas
stations us just plain
| dumb and bad for business. Most pickups with tanks I
see are for
| construction companies not farmers. Besides, very few
farm implements and
| no construction equipment that I know of run on
gasoline. Vast majority
| run on diesel and that's also easy to prove. You walk
up and smell 'em.
| I'll bet 99 percent or more of those tanks you see are
full of diesel.
|
| You seem to think that all farm operations are100,000 acre
farms, with 10
| full time employees. Around here, the norm is a farmer
that has a day job,
| doing construction, or something that has enough
flexibility to be off when
| he has to be. There are a lot of small tractors out there
(most as old as
| our airplanes) that are still gas powered.Granted, there
are a lot of
| diesels coming into use.
|
| They probably don't use enough fuel to justify a permanant
storage tank, and
| maybe be able to afford it. As far as the road tax goes,
there is an easy
| form to fill in and send in and get every penny of the tax
back.
|
| I really am not making this up. That is the way it is,
around here, and I
| suspect many other places, too.
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|

Ron Mahaffey wrote:
California has strict road tax laws. All unleaded is sold with road tax
included. The buyer must request a refund quarterly and must provide copies
of certified invoices. In addition in order to request a refund the amount
must be over $600 or no joy. All diesel sold for off highway use is dyed
red and has no road tax. I have known trucks to get caught on a road. The
Highway Patrol will tow it and then require it be drained and filled with
undyed fuel. Plus there is a considerable fine. Don't know many that will
take the risk.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Morgans wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" wrote



I think the state of California has some strict laws on transporting
fuel. You can take a couple lawn mower cans for your J-3 but putting a
tank on the back of your truck probably wouldn't fly.


Can you point to the law, or where a person could find it? I could not
find
any law restricting gasoline transport, although I know there must be
something written.

Here is the company I bought my 50 gallon tank from and they claim
approval for use even in CA.

http://www.transferflow.com/refueling_tanks.html


Matt




Which has exactly what to do with my post?

And learn to bottom post like real net users.

Matt

I have one truck mounted fuel tank and one trailer mounted tank. The 110 gallon tank is used for my farm welder /
generator, ATV, and small older gasoline powered tractors. There are a variety of pieces of equipment that still run
on gasoline such as grain auger motors, mist blowers, etc. The size of the farm may be considered a small operation
in one local and huge in another depending on produce or livestock grown. Here a 20,000 acre ranch is large. In
Texas or Wyoming it isn't. Farmers do pay road tax on fuel they use on the road just like you do.



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"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:jy0ug.71144$ZW3.6708@dukeread04...

| True, but you may have signed away that right on your
hangar/tiedown
| agreement with the airport operator.
Such a clause is invalid if the airport has taken federal
money... any person has the right to repair or fuel their
own airplane.



"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
| On 14 Jul 2006 21:59:48 -0700, "Doug"

| wrote in
. com::
|
| The right to fuel your own airplane with fuel you brought
in from
| elsewhere may also be covered by "common law". After all,
it is your
| property and your airplane.
|
| True, but you may have signed away that right on your
hangar/tiedown
| agreement with the airport operator.
|
| So long as you are not unsafe, it is your right.
|
| Hence the airports licensing requirement, probably
mandated by the
| airports indemnification policy.
|
| Such a law would be akin to a company requiring you to
fuel up
| your car at the company pumps or you couldn't live in the
company
| housing or work at the company. Or being required to buy
a Chevy if you
| worked at Cheverolet. Such laws are not legal.
|
| The FAA regulation cited by Macklin seem to cover that
potential
| issue.
|
| My 2¢



Thanks for the documents Jim, you are good at this.

Can they charge a "fuel flowage fee" on your own gas?

Al G

Al wrote:



Can they charge a "fuel flowage fee" on your own gas?

Yes, this is quite common. Around here 5¢ a gallon is the norm.

I doubt that they can tax you on product you already own.
But there are 50 states and 50 sets of laws.

Both the AOPA and the EAA have people who handle such
matters. The EAA is particularly interested because they
have the STC for mogas.

www.aopa.org www.eaa.org


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P


"Al" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| news:jy0ug.71144$ZW3.6708@dukeread04...
|
| | True, but you may have signed away that right on your
| hangar/tiedown
| | agreement with the airport operator.
| Such a clause is invalid if the airport has taken
federal
| money... any person has the right to repair or fuel
their
| own airplane.
|
|
|
| "Larry Dighera" wrote in message
| ...
| | On 14 Jul 2006 21:59:48 -0700, "Doug"
|
| | wrote in
| . com::
| |
| | The right to fuel your own airplane with fuel you
brought
| in from
| | elsewhere may also be covered by "common law". After
all,
| it is your
| | property and your airplane.
| |
| | True, but you may have signed away that right on your
| hangar/tiedown
| | agreement with the airport operator.
| |
| | So long as you are not unsafe, it is your right.
| |
| | Hence the airports licensing requirement, probably
| mandated by the
| | airports indemnification policy.
| |
| | Such a law would be akin to a company requiring you
to
| fuel up
| | your car at the company pumps or you couldn't live in
the
| company
| | housing or work at the company. Or being required to
buy
| a Chevy if you
| | worked at Cheverolet. Such laws are not legal.
| |
| | The FAA regulation cited by Macklin seem to cover that
| potential
| | issue.
| |
| | My 2¢
|
|
|
| Thanks for the documents Jim, you are good at this.
|
| Can they charge a "fuel flowage fee" on your own gas?
|
| Al G
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:

I doubt that they can tax you on product you already own.
But there are 50 states and 50 sets of laws.

A flow tax is very common. There are many times more than 50 sets of
laws. This is a local matter.

There are Federal, state, county, township and city laws,
and then there are boards and commissions that has
regulations, so maybe there are 50,000 plus possible
combinations of laws, piled layer upon layer.
The state law must allow "home rule and taxing powers" to
the government subdivisions. Then the appropriate agency
must propose and vote on the new tax. It must be done
follow the administrative procedures laws of the state and
the subdivision. And then in order to challenge the tax, a
person who has paid the tax must file a law suit in the
proper court seeking an injunction. Then you may or may not
have a hearing.

But if you don't complain the tax becomes accepted and any
late complaints will likely be ruled moot.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Newps" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| I doubt that they can tax you on product you already
own.
| But there are 50 states and 50 sets of laws.
|
| A flow tax is very common. There are many times more than
50 sets of
| laws. This is a local matter.

"Jim Macklin" writes:

| And there ain't a drop of gasoline in any of 'em.

They still do use gasoline tractors, but most are now using
#2

We have two (underground tank) gasoline pumps on our farms. It doesn't
take many tractors to make it a necessity. (We have four International
560 tractors that we use for various odd jobs.)

--kyler

Jim Macklin wrote:


But if you don't complain the tax becomes accepted and any
late complaints will likely be ruled moot.

A flow tax is generally not contested as almost always the money is used
at that airport for improvements. Rarely does the money end up in some
city's general fund.