Class A airspace

"Soarin Again" wrote in message
...
In the U.S. we have access to airspace, provided we
follow the rules. Your opinion that those who blatantly
disregard the rules are simply pushing the boundaries,
is hogwash.

You can't possibly know if it is 'hogwash' or not unless you have detailed
weather info and the results of their baro calibration. Talking to the
pilot before posting to this forum would not only be the gentlemanly thing
to do, it will also do more to protect our right to fly than your public
nitpicking possibly could.


There are two separate issues regarding violations
of
regulations in the U.S. One is the competative issue,
which means that giving credit for flights that intentionally

All that prize money and all those hot soaring groupies going to the wrong
pilots... The horror of it all.
It's true, I too got into sailplane racing for the money and the groupies,
but I stay with it just for the fun of it.

Not to mention the fact that posting flights on the
internet with your name, glider type and registration
number along with a flight log showing your violation,
is a pretty dumb thing to do.

So let me get this straight--you want to try to argue with someone who is
dumb? The result will be a meaningless victory or a doubly embarassing
defeat.

your handle "Soarin Again"
Please, go fly. Step back from the keyboard, please.

On 6/5/06 Peter Klose from the SFV Mannheim club
flying a Nimbus 3DM D-KTTT out of Parowan, Utah had
such a large error in his logger that he went to 19,180.



I don't quite understand...this guy posts the flight
for all to see on OLC and that is okay. Someone brings
up this flight on RAS...and this is not okay?

Perhaps the pilot somehow stayed under FL180 on that
flight, I would think an explanation with his upload
would be warranted. This idea that 'pushing the envelope'
in regards to the FAR's blows my mind. If a mid-air
occurs I doubt the public would buy it. I also agree
with Ramy...transponder usage would help with a much
larger issue. But that is for another flame-war.

This thread is about an important concept (playing by the rules) but
has twisted off into the realm of paranoia, with names and dates. Just
because someone didn't explain in the comments that they were cleared
above 17,999 feet, doesn't mean that they weren't cleared. Innocent
until proven guilty or something like that.

If I was to pass your car and trailer on the way to the airport, and
you were driving at the speed limit, would you:

A. Report me to the FAA.
B. Take my drivers license.
C. Remove my flight claim from the OLC.
D. Tell my mum.

From some posts in this thread, I'd assume all of the above. I'll never
get steak and kidney pie again.

How about reporting me to the IRS if you believe I'm not paying enough
tax?

It's far from a good idea to intentionally break the rules, but it's
a much worse idea for private individuals to play traffic cop.

A phrase that got me in trouble before...
Remember when the OLC was FUN?

Jim

"JS" wrote in message
oups.com...
A phrase that got me in trouble before...
Remember when the OLC was FUN?

And sex was safe???

KC

Kilo Charlie wrote:

Remember when the OLC was FUN?


And sex was safe???


When was that?


Jack

"Jack" wrote in message
et...
Kilo Charlie wrote:

Remember when the OLC was FUN?


And sex was safe???


When was that?

Ahh.....give me a minute.....when I was in high school??? We only worried
about getting girls pregnant not if we would die from it. That was a long
time ago though. But we digress.....apologies because this is a great
thread and should keep on track. :-)

KC


Jack

Before data loggers and the OLC...pilots had no record
of how high they flew other then a barograph, and no
doubt Class A was getting busted. What irks me is
not someone close to Class A...but those that deliberatley
violate and then post their flights. This behaviour
is bad for our sport on a couple of levels...so I whole-heartedly
support Doug and the OLC bunch on keeping an eye on
it. We are much to small a group to be nothing but
dust-in-the-wind if a glider brings down an airliner.
An those flying in busy airspace are to be commended
for using transponders...

Within reason I think a little self-policing can go
a long way, because we as pilots have a much better
idea of what is going on then the FAA(for the most
part). Flame shield activated.
But the pilot community is responsible for reinforcement,
and rewarding
pilots who break the rules gives negative reinforcement.
Aside from the
regulatory issues, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.
So, we will
remove OLC flight claims that show ovbious violation
of Class-A
airspace without a reasonable explanation. This is
not Orwell's 'Big
Brother' it's more like Big Brothers and Big Sisters.

I'm with you, Doug, but what is 'obvious'? Sounds like
a sticky little
detail. Let us know when the SSA/OLC bunch get it figured
out, will you?


Jack

Forget Class A, how about the guy that infringes on restricted airspace
and STILL submits the flight on OLC in order to win a major contest!!

Pressure differences etc can be explained but ploughing through
restricted airspace in this time of GPS is not excusable.

Al


Stewart Kissel wrote:
Before data loggers and the OLC...pilots had no record
of how high they flew other then a barograph, and no
doubt Class A was getting busted. What irks me is
not someone close to Class A...but those that deliberatley
violate and then post their flights. This behaviour
is bad for our sport on a couple of levels...so I whole-heartedly
support Doug and the OLC bunch on keeping an eye on
it. We are much to small a group to be nothing but
dust-in-the-wind if a glider brings down an airliner.
An those flying in busy airspace are to be commended
for using transponders...

Within reason I think a little self-policing can go
a long way, because we as pilots have a much better
idea of what is going on then the FAA(for the most
part). Flame shield activated.
But the pilot community is responsible for reinforcement,
and rewarding
pilots who break the rules gives negative reinforcement.
Aside from the
regulatory issues, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.
So, we will
remove OLC flight claims that show ovbious violation
of Class-A
airspace without a reasonable explanation. This is
not Orwell's 'Big
Brother' it's more like Big Brothers and Big Sisters.

I'm with you, Doug, but what is 'obvious'? Sounds like
a sticky little
detail. Let us know when the SSA/OLC bunch get it figured
out, will you?


Jack

wrote:
Forget Class A, how about the guy that infringes on restricted airspace
and STILL submits the flight on OLC in order to win a major contest!!

Pressure differences etc can be explained but ploughing through
restricted airspace in this time of GPS is not excusable.

What major contest? If you mean an SSA sanctioned contest, that would
be an automatic 0 points for the day, and an additional 100 point
penalty. If you mean something like the Gerlach Dash, some restricted
areas have listed max altitudes, some have schedules listed on the
sectionals and it is perfectly legal to enter them during inactive
hours, and some can be readily entered with a simple radio call,
particularly on weekends...

Marc

Maybe the airspace was cold? If so, the pilot should add a comment about it.

Ramy

wrote in message
ups.com...
Forget Class A, how about the guy that infringes on restricted airspace
and STILL submits the flight on OLC in order to win a major contest!!

Pressure differences etc can be explained but ploughing through
restricted airspace in this time of GPS is not excusable.

Al


Stewart Kissel wrote:
Before data loggers and the OLC...pilots had no record
of how high they flew other then a barograph, and no
doubt Class A was getting busted. What irks me is
not someone close to Class A...but those that deliberatley
violate and then post their flights. This behaviour
is bad for our sport on a couple of levels...so I whole-heartedly
support Doug and the OLC bunch on keeping an eye on
it. We are much to small a group to be nothing but
dust-in-the-wind if a glider brings down an airliner.
An those flying in busy airspace are to be commended
for using transponders...

Within reason I think a little self-policing can go
a long way, because we as pilots have a much better
idea of what is going on then the FAA(for the most
part). Flame shield activated.
But the pilot community is responsible for reinforcement,
and rewarding
pilots who break the rules gives negative reinforcement.
Aside from the
regulatory issues, it is also unsportsmanlike conduct.
So, we will
remove OLC flight claims that show ovbious violation
of Class-A
airspace without a reasonable explanation. This is
not Orwell's 'Big
Brother' it's more like Big Brothers and Big Sisters.

I'm with you, Doug, but what is 'obvious'? Sounds like
a sticky little
detail. Let us know when the SSA/OLC bunch get it figured
out, will you?


Jack