Forget Dying; Is Soaring Dead?

Tony wrote:
I dont think that even handicapping will help much. On a medium to
strong day, a hotshot in his fiberglass ship will outrun all the lower
guys even with handicapping. The only time a low performance guy like
myself will win is on the weak days. Guess what, soaring contests,
especially nationals are not usually held at places with weak
conditions.

The nuts and bolts of it (in my case at least) is that I was lured into
this great sport because I was told it was cheap. And im going to hang
on to that dream for as long as i can. Currently I am the most active
Cross Country pilot in Iowa, Commercial and CFIG, and own a Cherokee II
and enclosed trailer with less than 10,000 dollars invested all
together. Thats right folks, a college kid with a 23:1 wood and fabric
glider is the most active cross country pilot in Iowa. If the lift is
positive and cloudbase is above about 3000 AGL, im outta here.

I couldnt even buy a new gelcoat on your glider for what i have
invested in the sport. Basically the reason your contests are weakly
attended is because it costs too much to be competitive, and really
what is the point of competing if you cant be competitive.

To fix this, I am organizing a contest. Only "crappy" gliders will be
allowed. Im thinking capping the L/D at something like 28. No
fiberglass, no water, no GPS or cambridge glide computer thingymabobs.
Pellet Varios are fine, Total Energy if you want to get high tech.
Basically you, your glider, a sectional and a task. We will do
triangles only, designed to make it back to the airport so that we can
tell lies and drink beer into the evening. First guy to make it back
is the first guy on the list to retrieve land outs, and so on. If its
windy, the only task will be to stay upwind of the airport. No score
will be kept, except the days winner will have to buy beer. So we are
looking at next spring/summer sometime, in Central Iowa. So far Im in
with my Cherokee, Matt Michael will probably compete with his Woodstock
(Which has done 400 km Hilton Cup Triangle in IOWA!) and a few others
from the upper midwest. Who else wants to come?

Yeh, got to say that no top flite racing pilot in the U.S. has ever
offered to purchase or even asked to use my Ka6E for any national
sports class racing event. Seems that the current handicap system and
sports class rules would make that an obvious choice for those guys
instead of the so expensive DuoDiscuses, Ventuses and ASW27s. But if
one is inclined to do so, that pilot wouldn't be at any disadvantage
with another Ka6E on the same grid because both fuselages would have
the same width!

Eric Greenwell wrote:
P. Corbett wrote:
Orion Kingman wrote:

I wonder if some who might otherwise attend a contest are getting their
jollies by posting their flights to the OLC??

For me - no. Contest flying (lets call it "racing") and the OLC are such
different experiences, one can not subsitute for the other. In the air,
racing with other gliders, especially on assigned tasks, is quite
different from flying by myself. There is also the ground side, with all
the competitors gathered in one place at the same time for the race,
flying the same tasks, so you have a shared experience that you don't
get in the OLC.

While the competition aspects of the OLC are interesting, it's not
exciting like a race, at least for me; interesting, but not exciting. I
really like to see what others are doing and how differet areas of the
country and the world work for soaring pilots, so I do follow the postings.

I don't seriously compete in the OLC, but I do post all my flights.
Serious competition would involve carefully planning a course for each
day to best fit the OLC task rules, along the lines of Badge and record
tasking. While I enjoy these kinds of flights, the experience is still
very different than a race, and I don't plan my flights to optimize my
OLC score.

So, perhaps someone that's never raced a sailplane might think the OLC
was a substitute for racing, but I don't, and I'm guessing most pilots
that have raced wouldn't, either.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Eric Greenwell wrote:
P. Corbett wrote:
Orion Kingman wrote:

I wonder if some who might otherwise attend a contest are getting their
jollies by posting their flights to the OLC??

For me - no. Contest flying (lets call it "racing") and the OLC are such
different experiences, one can not subsitute for the other. In the air,
racing with other gliders, especially on assigned tasks, is quite
different from flying by myself. There is also the ground side, with all
the competitors gathered in one place at the same time for the race,
flying the same tasks, so you have a shared experience that you don't
get in the OLC.

While the competition aspects of the OLC are interesting, it's not
exciting like a race, at least for me; interesting, but not exciting. I
really like to see what others are doing and how differet areas of the
country and the world work for soaring pilots, so I do follow the postings.

I don't seriously compete in the OLC, but I do post all my flights.
Serious competition would involve carefully planning a course for each
day to best fit the OLC task rules, along the lines of Badge and record
tasking. While I enjoy these kinds of flights, the experience is still
very different than a race, and I don't plan my flights to optimize my
OLC score.

So, perhaps someone that's never raced a sailplane might think the OLC
was a substitute for racing, but I don't, and I'm guessing most pilots
that have raced wouldn't, either.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

As a pilot just getting interested in contest flying I found posting to
OLC to be an easy next step. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the
past newbee contest cannon fodder (like myself) is detouring away from
the "traditional" contest format. If newbees used to show up just to
stretch themselves, isn't OLC a good substitute?

If this is a trend, then why should it be resisted? Is there a way to
merge the two? Should OLC evolve into the scoring program for all
contests/badges? Perhaps after a few years of OLC, maybe I'll be more
interested in traditional contests...or will OLC/SeeYou evolve in that
same period of time and keep me captive?

Every day is a contest day to me and technology change tends to leave
the "traditionalists" behind. My bet is OLC will evolve faster than
traditional contests can respond to the challenge.

Folks, it's a real "game changer". How it will change us, both good
and bad, is still to be seen.

LT





Eric Greenwell wrote:

For me - no. Contest flying (lets call it "racing") and the OLC are such
different experiences, one can not subsitute for the other. In the air,
racing with other gliders, especially on assigned tasks, is quite
different from flying by myself. There is also the ground side, with all
the competitors gathered in one place at the same time for the race,
flying the same tasks, so you have a shared experience that you don't
get in the OLC.

While the competition aspects of the OLC are interesting, it's not
exciting like a race, at least for me; interesting, but not exciting. I
really like to see what others are doing and how differet areas of the
country and the world work for soaring pilots, so I do follow the postings.

I don't seriously compete in the OLC, but I do post all my flights.
Serious competition would involve carefully planning a course for each
day to best fit the OLC task rules, along the lines of Badge and record
tasking. While I enjoy these kinds of flights, the experience is still
very different than a race, and I don't plan my flights to optimize my
OLC score.

So, perhaps someone that's never raced a sailplane might think the OLC
was a substitute for racing, but I don't, and I'm guessing most pilots
that have raced wouldn't, either.

--


www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

HoUdini wrote:
As a pilot just getting interested in contest flying I found posting to
OLC to be an easy next step. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the
past newbee contest cannon fodder (like myself) is detouring away from
the "traditional" contest format. If newbees used to show up just to
stretch themselves, isn't OLC a good substitute?

No, it's not a good substitute for racing, because flying together on
the same task is quite a different experience, and you'll learn to fly
better and faster sooner than flying alone, even if you compare yourself
to other pilots via the OLC. I think it is/might be a good substitute
for Badges (and possibly record attempts, at least at the State level),
though, and maybe it's an easier way to get pilots flying for Badges and
entering races.

If this is a trend, then why should it be resisted? Is there a way to
merge the two? Should OLC evolve into the scoring program for all
contests/badges? Perhaps after a few years of OLC, maybe I'll be more
interested in traditional contests...or will OLC/SeeYou evolve in that
same period of time and keep me captive?

Spend a couple days working or spectating at a contest soon, and see
what I mean about the differences. It's definitely not an either/or
choice: you can do and enjoy both, just as there are pilots that don't
do either because they don't enjoy raceing or the OLC (I know, hard to
imagine)!

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Hey Tony,

Thats a great idea but to make it even more interesting, make it a
poker run where you have to take a photo of your target turn
point/landmark to get a a pair of cards, and you can get as many tp's
as you like to improve your odds of a good hand.......that way you have
some luck & some skill in the mix and potentially makes everyone the
winner.....especially those with long telephoto lenses and open
cockpits. ;-)

I'm the potential new contest pilot who after a just a bit of XC
experience will go to the sport class events in my HP-11. I can't
justify spending over 10k right now and only have 2 weeks of vacation a
year for these things, although plenty of weekends are possible so I'll
be going to the nearby contests for a start, perhaps as far away as 500
miles that combine with long weekend holidays and vacation leave.

Traditionally Europeans get much more holidays and US people get much
less and if you have a family, you'd be lucky to get 1 week at the
glider event of your choice.

The older pilots likely get more holidays and have less family
obligations so they have more time to spend, although they might not
like the longer drives.

Ray

Tony wrote:
I dont think that even handicapping will help much. On a medium to
strong day, a hotshot in his fiberglass ship will outrun all the lower
guys even with handicapping. The only time a low performance guy like
myself will win is on the weak days. Guess what, soaring contests,
especially nationals are not usually held at places with weak
conditions.

The nuts and bolts of it (in my case at least) is that I was lured into
this great sport because I was told it was cheap. And im going to hang
on to that dream for as long as i can. Currently I am the most active
Cross Country pilot in Iowa, Commercial and CFIG, and own a Cherokee II
and enclosed trailer with less than 10,000 dollars invested all
together. Thats right folks, a college kid with a 23:1 wood and fabric
glider is the most active cross country pilot in Iowa. If the lift is
positive and cloudbase is above about 3000 AGL, im outta here.

I couldnt even buy a new gelcoat on your glider for what i have
invested in the sport. Basically the reason your contests are weakly
attended is because it costs too much to be competitive, and really
what is the point of competing if you cant be competitive.

To fix this, I am organizing a contest. Only "crappy" gliders will be
allowed. Im thinking capping the L/D at something like 28. No
fiberglass, no water, no GPS or cambridge glide computer thingymabobs.
Pellet Varios are fine, Total Energy if you want to get high tech.
Basically you, your glider, a sectional and a task. We will do
triangles only, designed to make it back to the airport so that we can
tell lies and drink beer into the evening. First guy to make it back
is the first guy on the list to retrieve land outs, and so on. If its
windy, the only task will be to stay upwind of the airport. No score
will be kept, except the days winner will have to buy beer. So we are
looking at next spring/summer sometime, in Central Iowa. So far Im in
with my Cherokee, Matt Michael will probably compete with his Woodstock
(Which has done 400 km Hilton Cup Triangle in IOWA!) and a few others
from the upper midwest. Who else wants to come?

Great Idea Ray, I will add to my mental list of tasks. Its looking
like I have created quite a deal of interest with this. I will be
moving on to the next leve as far as organizing something and will
start a new thread here on RAS when I know more. Keep throwing out
ideas and let me know if you can attend! I am thinking about late May
or Early June. That time of the year the soaring here is usually
pretty good, plus you can land nearly anywhere. The fields do not have
tall crops in them until late June, so every direction you look are
huge long runways with roads next to them (1 mile squares to the
horizon) and very friendly farmers who are interested in learning more
about the sport.

Another issue that has been pointed out to me is that there are an
inordinate number of non roadworthy glider trailers scattered around
the midwest. If we accomplish nothing else we will at least get these
relics back on the road where they belong!

Tony Condon,
Organizer, 1st Midwest Glider Trailer Rally

The OLC is not a real substitute for racing, but I would like to see a
glider type filter, just to see how others flying the same make/model
are doing.

Frank Whiteley

HoUdini wrote:
As a pilot just getting interested in contest flying I found posting to
OLC to be an easy next step. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the
past newbee contest cannon fodder (like myself) is detouring away from
the "traditional" contest format. If newbees used to show up just to
stretch themselves, isn't OLC a good substitute?

If this is a trend, then why should it be resisted? Is there a way to
merge the two? Should OLC evolve into the scoring program for all
contests/badges? Perhaps after a few years of OLC, maybe I'll be more
interested in traditional contests...or will OLC/SeeYou evolve in that
same period of time and keep me captive?

Every day is a contest day to me and technology change tends to leave
the "traditionalists" behind. My bet is OLC will evolve faster than
traditional contests can respond to the challenge.

Folks, it's a real "game changer". How it will change us, both good
and bad, is still to be seen.

LT





Eric Greenwell wrote:

For me - no. Contest flying (lets call it "racing") and the OLC are such
different experiences, one can not subsitute for the other. In the air,
racing with other gliders, especially on assigned tasks, is quite
different from flying by myself. There is also the ground side, with all
the competitors gathered in one place at the same time for the race,
flying the same tasks, so you have a shared experience that you don't
get in the OLC.

While the competition aspects of the OLC are interesting, it's not
exciting like a race, at least for me; interesting, but not exciting. I
really like to see what others are doing and how differet areas of the
country and the world work for soaring pilots, so I do follow the postings.

I don't seriously compete in the OLC, but I do post all my flights.
Serious competition would involve carefully planning a course for each
day to best fit the OLC task rules, along the lines of Badge and record
tasking. While I enjoy these kinds of flights, the experience is still
very different than a race, and I don't plan my flights to optimize my
OLC score.

So, perhaps someone that's never raced a sailplane might think the OLC
was a substitute for racing, but I don't, and I'm guessing most pilots
that have raced wouldn't, either.

--


www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

doing my part--
I promise to fly in the regional to be held next year in Uvalde/Castroville
if it includes sports class.
I left a contest early a few years ago to get home for the birth of my
daughter (made it with 2 hours to spare!) and now she's old enough, and
Uvalde is close enough, for me to return to competition.

The club I belong to has been doing a lot to support XC flight and I think
we've got 3 people ready to join the ranks of competitive pilots. It's
becoming almost routine for the "new xc pilots" class to turn in 300k
flights in Russia's and PW5's. Next week is our second annual XC Camp and
we're all expecting multiple diamond distance, diamond goal, and personal
best flights. A bunch of guys also went up and joined the Boulder gang in
Dalhart a few weeks ago.
The Austin club had a kick-a$$ XC week recently--maybe one of them will do a
little crowing about their flights.
The other Houston club operated out of Uvalde for a week recently and had
some great flights too.

No, the rumours of the demise of soaring are premature. There's a lot going
on in my neck of the woods. Some of it may translate into greater
participation in sanctioned contests.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Only 21 planes on the grid at storied Uvalde, TX for the U.S. Std.
Class Nationals, even with three non-U.S. guests. This was apparently
Uvalde's smallest contest of any kind, including regionals, and smaller
even than most U.S. regionals.

A "get your entries in while they're still available!" posting today
from the folks at New Castle, VA...6+ weeks after the preferential
deadline for what has been an oversubscribed contest and "must attend"
social event for as long as I can remember.

The only U.S. contest I know of where seeding still matters (or
preferential deadline, for that matter) is the spring kickoff in Perry,
SC, where pilots crazed from a long winter of inactivity still flock in
droves, apparently not having gotten the word that soaring, or at least
competitive soaring--whose adherents have traditionally been more
willing to expend the vast sums needed for the latest equipment--is
dead. OK, maybe Mifflin, PA, but with this renowned venue being more
recently notorious for uncertain weather, it's not impossible to
foresee a dropoff there, too.

True, entry fees are up a bit. And so (not uncoincidentally) are
gasoline prices. And our core competitive pilot base continues to age,
notwithstanding wins this year by "junior" masters Liz Schwenkler and
Chris Saunders. But is that enough to explain these two startling
events?

What's going on?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

Frank Whiteley wrote:
The OLC is not a real substitute for racing, but I would like to see a
glider type filter, just to see how others flying the same make/model
are doing.

Ditto!


Jack