"Why was a plane able to fly over New York?"

Ron Natalie wrote:
Emily wrote:

What cities do not allow GA near/over them?

DC.

Untrue. GA is still permitted over DC. It's heavily
restricted (to the point where it's killed most GA
traffic) but it's possible.

I guess I haven't been paying much attention. When I stopped paying
attention, it wasn't allowed.

John Theune wrote:

What cities do not allow GA near/over them? I've not heard of any.

Paris for sure is Class A to the ground. Other cities in France have
rules according to their size, which typically make it "de facto"
impossible to fly over them. It is possible to fly over towns and
smaller cities in France.

I'm not sure about London - I go there often enough, and I've never
seen a small plane over the city - so I'm guessing it goes about the
same way there. Again you do see VFR traffic over smaller UK cities.

Switzerland, I believe, is very restrictive as well.

GF

wrote:
John Theune wrote:
What cities do not allow GA near/over them? I've not heard of any.

Paris for sure is Class A to the ground. Other cities in France have
rules according to their size, which typically make it "de facto"
impossible to fly over them. It is possible to fly over towns and
smaller cities in France.

I'm not sure about London - I go there often enough, and I've never
seen a small plane over the city - so I'm guessing it goes about the
same way there. Again you do see VFR traffic over smaller UK cities.

Switzerland, I believe, is very restrictive as well.

GF

You are confusing GA with VFR traffic. While some of those cities MAY
have controlled airspace to the ground, they do not ban GA. Even if
they have controlled airspace to the ground it may not prohibit VFR
traffic. Yes Class A requires IFR but if it's Class B or below then you
just need permission to fly VFR in there.

John Theune wrote:

You are confusing GA with VFR traffic. While some of those cities MAY
have controlled airspace to the ground, they do not ban GA. Even if
they have controlled airspace to the ground it may not prohibit VFR
traffic. Yes Class A requires IFR but if it's Class B or below then you
just need permission to fly VFR in there.


You are correct to clarify.
I was referring to VFR, which I believe is the subject of this thread,
but I accept your correction. At this point there is no Class B in
France - and until recently no Class C either. Class A is defined the
same (no VFR) but applied differently than in the US. It is used to
keep VFR traffic far from Paris.

It is very likely that JAA rules will bring European airspace closer to
the structure familiar to US pilots, and there will be more Class B and
C airspace - however I believe it is just as likely that cities like
Lyon (class C) will refuse access to most or all VFR.

GF

Paris for sure is Class A to the ground.


The IFR approach (for small airplanes) for Toussous-les-Nobles leads
right across the Eiffel tower and ends near Versailles...

The center of Berlin is a restricted area after an ultralight pilot
commited suicide with his plane on the lawn in front of what amounts to
the German version of the House of Congress. The f***ing self-centered
idiot...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Paris for sure is Class A to the ground.


The IFR approach (for small airplanes) for Toussous-les-Nobles leads
right across the Eiffel tower and ends near Versailles...

The center of Berlin is a restricted area after an ultralight pilot
commited suicide with his plane on the lawn in front of what amounts to
the German version of the House of Congress. The f***ing self-centered
idiot...

There has always been a very small prohibited area in that just barely
encompasses the White House and the Capitol (our legislature) and the
area in between them (mostly the mall, museums, and memorials). This
is inside the surface area of the class B, which has an additional
"Flight Restricted Zone" around it plus the ADIZ.


We had a guy crash a 152 into the a tree on the White House lawn and
while it caused some amount of consternation, it didn't end up in any
rules changes. At the time this happened, the new Denver International
airport was way behind schedule on it's opening date, leading to the
joke:
"What's the difference between the White House and Denver
International?"

"Planes land at the White House."

In article ,
says...
..

The center of Berlin is a restricted area after an ultralight pilot
commited suicide with his plane on the lawn in front of what amounts to
the German version of the House of Congress. The f***ing self-centered
idiot...



I agree. That was my first (admittedly self-centered) thought when I
learned about 9/11 - before it was understood what was going on. I saw a
small internet headline saying "plane crashes into world trade center".
I thought "small plane" and I thought "******* is going to ruin it for all
of us..."

GF

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
The center of Berlin is a restricted area after an ultralight pilot
commited suicide with his plane on the lawn in front of what amounts to
the German version of the House of Congress. The f***ing self-centered
idiot...

So, now it's against the law to commit suicide from an aircraft on the lawn
of the German House of Congress? Hmmm... I'm not so certain that this would
stop someone who was wanting to commit suicide... BTW, what are they going
to do, shoot him down? Either way, he gets his wish, doesn't he?
sick-grin

Greg,

many places in the world
(like almost all of Europe)


Oh? I fly here. Just yesterday right over Hamburg, the second biggest
city in Germany, pop. 1.6 million. Where do you get your data???

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Greg,

many places in the world
(like almost all of Europe)


Oh? I fly here. Just yesterday right over Hamburg, the second biggest
city in Germany, pop. 1.6 million. Where do you get your data???


Well, for starters it's published, and publically available. Secondly,
I've flown a lot around Paris and France in general. I admit I haven't
flown in Germany, but I do go to Munich several time a year and the
skies over that city are hardly buzzing with light aircraft (like zero)
so perhaps it's more restrictive than you make it sound?

GF