The East River VFR corridor is now history

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:45:01 -0700, Marco Leon wrote:

This is not a bad deal in my opinion. If we really wanted to go up the
East River, we just need to contact ATC. Being in the heart of the busiest
Class B in the world, pilots should be comfortable with ATC if they are
there anyhow.

However, you've now a region of airspace where one set of pilots will be
on the self-announce and another on the LGA frequency. That sounds like
an especially bad idea.

Unless they plan to never clear in fixed wings to the otherwise-exclusion
zone.

- Andrew

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:08:27 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

Even that article clearly explains in the first paragraph that the corridor
is NOT closed to fixed-wind aircraft. If one reads the actual NOTAM, one
will see that amphibious fixed-wing aircraft operating at the seaplane based
are also permitted (why amphibious and not any seaplane, I don't know), even
without ATC approval.

A relative in high places, perhaps?

It's not the case at all.

That's really good to hear... As I said, based on the (probably
undeserved) reputation of NYC ATC, I can see why an out-of-towner might
be leery of 'getting in the way'... its good to hear that those
impressions are unfounded.

-Scott

"RK Henry" wrote in message
...
What has been lost is another "inch" given away to the demagogues.
We've lost so many "inches" over the years. Now the FAA has shown that
it can be cowed into doing something by media and political pressure
where they usually have been able to resist such pressure. Buoyed by
that success, how many other groups are going to bring pressure to
bear? There are so many kook groups demanding so many concessions, up
to and including a complete ban on all general aviation activities. We
can't afford to give an inch on any front.

Gun owners have learned that over the years... We started off with ONE law
and it stated SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED... Look at the cluster-**** of laws
that we have now, slowly eroding our 2nd-Amendment rights... Of course, all
of them are unconstitutional in my opinion...

You have to take a stand and fight every change, otherwise you'll lose all
your rights... Our rights as aviators have been slowly eroded ever since
Kitty Hawk... The Wright brothers didn't need no stinkin' license to fly...
They didn't need PMAed parts... They didn't need no ****in' medical...

I have to agree. Twenty-thousand gun laws amounting to a virtual ban on
carrying, and sometimes even ownership (i.e. the District of Columbia's law
is very simple, "You can't have a gun unless you're a cop or Carl Rowan."
(It's amazing what you can get away with if you know the right people.)) We
have the DC ADIZ, a "temporary" thing that the FAA was by law required to
justify to Congress --what, two years ago? You know that Daley is gonna do
something Chicago some day soon. It won't stop until there is a ban on
private flying "to protect 1) the environment, 2) the children, 3) women, or
4) an endangered fly."

Gun owners have learned that over the years... We started off with ONE law
and it stated SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED... Look at the cluster-**** of laws
that we have now, slowly eroding our 2nd-Amendment rights... Of course,
all
of them are unconstitutional in my opinion...

You have to take a stand and fight every change, otherwise you'll lose all
your rights... Our rights as aviators have been slowly eroded ever since
Kitty Hawk... The Wright brothers didn't need no stinkin' license to
fly...
They didn't need PMAed parts... They didn't need no ****in' medical...

Apparently you are right. The AOPA had a graphic on their website that
showed that the end of the canyon had been moved from the north end of
Roosevelt I. to the south end. This has since benn changed to the south
end of GOVENOR's Island.

Bud

Gary Drescher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
As I read the new reg, I think all it means is that the "end" of the
VFR box canyon above the East river has been moved from the northern
end of Roosevelt island to the southern end of the island. That is all
I read. You can still fly up the East river to that point without
calling ATC, which is not as far as before. Now you can go as far as
the UN building before making the big 180 back out.

No, because the end is moved to the southern end of a *different* island,
well south of the UN.

--Gary

wrote in message
ups.com...
Apparently you are right. The AOPA had a graphic on their website that
showed that the end of the canyon had been moved from the north end of
Roosevelt I. to the south end. This has since benn changed to the south
end of GOVENOR's Island.

Yes, I emailed them last week to inform them of their error.

This is the second time I've noticed an error in AOPA's TFR graphics, by the
way. A few years ago, there was a TFR in Chicago after Meigs closed. AOPA
mistakenly omitted the central downtown area from their drawing of the TFR.
A while after I emailed them about that error, a customer-relations person
wrote back and said their chart experts still thought the drawing was
correct. I convinced the CR person to verify it for himself, whereupon he
agreed with me and eventually convinced the chart experts to change the
drawing.

Remember, we can't delegate any of our PIC responsibility to AOPA. We're
responsible for determining the scope of TFRs ourselves, rather than taking
AOPA's word for it.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
As I read the new reg, I think all it means is that the "end" of the
VFR box canyon above the East river has been moved from the northern
end of Roosevelt island to the southern end of the island. That is all
I read. You can still fly up the East river to that point without
calling ATC, which is not as far as before. Now you can go as far as
the UN building before making the big 180 back out.

No, because the end is moved to the southern end of a *different* island,
well south of the UN.

--Gary

wrote in message
ups.com...
Apparently you are right. The AOPA had a graphic on their website that
showed that the end of the canyon had been moved from the north end of
Roosevelt I. to the south end. This has since benn changed to the south
end of GOVENOR's Island.

At the moment, AOPA's drawing of that TFR is *still* wrong. They show only
about half of the actual scope of the TFR:
http://www.aopa.org/images/whatsnew/...ams/6-3495.gif .
The text of the TFR is here (I just verified with DUATS that it's still
current):
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html#ny .

Would anyone else like to email them about this? )
Perhaps if AOPA hears from enough of us, they'll change their drawing before
they lure some pilot into busting the TFR.

--Gary



Gary Drescher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
As I read the new reg, I think all it means is that the "end" of the
VFR box canyon above the East river has been moved from the northern
end of Roosevelt island to the southern end of the island. That is all
I read. You can still fly up the East river to that point without
calling ATC, which is not as far as before. Now you can go as far as
the UN building before making the big 180 back out.

No, because the end is moved to the southern end of a *different* island,
well south of the UN.

--Gary

Correct here also. I always have NOAA sectionals and VFR terminal
charts with me. If they are wrong then I have something valid to blame
it on.
Also I plan to email them about it as you said.

Bud

Gary Drescher wrote:
..

Remember, we can't delegate any of our PIC responsibility to AOPA. We're
responsible for determining the scope of TFRs ourselves, rather than taking
AOPA's word for it.

--Gary

I emailed AOPA some time ago about the error. I got a response yesterday
saying that they had informed the FAA about the error, who would be making
the change. Does the FAA make these graphics? The error is still there.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
ups.com...
Apparently you are right. The AOPA had a graphic on their website that
showed that the end of the canyon had been moved from the north end of
Roosevelt I. to the south end. This has since benn changed to the south
end of GOVENOR's Island.

At the moment, AOPA's drawing of that TFR is *still* wrong. They show only
about half of the actual scope of the TFR:
http://www.aopa.org/images/whatsnew/...ams/6-3495.gif .
The text of the TFR is here (I just verified with DUATS that it's still
current):
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html#ny .

Would anyone else like to email them about this? )
Perhaps if AOPA hears from enough of us, they'll change their drawing
before they lure some pilot into busting the TFR.

--Gary



Gary Drescher wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
As I read the new reg, I think all it means is that the "end" of the
VFR box canyon above the East river has been moved from the northern
end of Roosevelt island to the southern end of the island. That is all
I read. You can still fly up the East river to that point without
calling ATC, which is not as far as before. Now you can go as far as
the UN building before making the big 180 back out.

No, because the end is moved to the southern end of a *different*
island,
well south of the UN.

--Gary