How often do you have to go around?

wrote in
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Mxsmanic wrote:
How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.

In a few hundred hours flying out of Hanscom (primary GA field for
Boston) I've had to go around maybe a half-dozen times, mostly for
runway-lingering by the plane in front. Once the controller sequenced
me a little too tightly. It is a very busy field on the weekends with a
lot of training to keep things messy- 5th in line to take off or land
is not unusual.

In about a half-million airline miles, mostly continental US, I've had
one go-around, on the Delta Shuttle into Boston, because the plane
ahead had not cleared the runway in time. It was a CAVU day and I'd
guess we were well inside the middle marker when they threw in the
towel.


Go-around is not only due to runway obstruction. Sometimes weather
can cause it. If you can, see the the FAA safety film "The Day All Hell
Broke Loose" using audio recorded at Denver's old airport, Stapleton. It
was CAVU with a wind shear measured at over 100 knots. About 9 or 11 (I
forget the exact number) airliners in a row went missed.

Also, I once saw thunder showers as McCarran in Las Vegas cause go-
arounds on CAVU days. I remember one where the thunder shower was less
than 1/2 mile thick. You could see the sun on the runway both in front of
and behind what looked like a sheer see-through black veil and rain
bouncing off the runway where the veil was touching it. I saw several
airliners go-around, but one landed and briefly fish-tailed while rolling
through the shower during roll out.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

I did once about 4 years ago. We were coming home at night. Because my
airport is in a bowl and because there are hills in the area you lose
sight of the airport while turning base. I misjudged the turn and
turned too soon. Once I got around the hill, ready to turn final I
realized that I was too close and went around. My wife was curious
because she'd never seen a go-around before.
However, with my students we do go-arounds all the time. I'll often
wait until just before the wheels hit before calling go-around. Also,
during engine out practice we get down pretty low over the fields
(maybe 40 feet up) and I'll call go around.

-Robert, CFII


Mxsmanic wrote:
In simulation, the simulated ATC seems to be very inefficient at
spacing aircraft, because practically every fifth aircraft on landing
is told to go around. In fact, if you are told to follow someone in
for a landing, you can take for granted that he won't clear the runway
in time and you'll be told to go around. It's tiresome and
frustrating after spending a lot of effort to line things up nicely.

How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.

--
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never happens, ever. You just tell ATC, "I can stop short of my
traffic" I've never been told to "go around, traffic following 1 mile,
citation" that never happens ever.. didn't happen last week during an IPC.

Mxsmanic wrote:
In simulation, the simulated ATC seems to be very inefficient at
spacing aircraft, because practically every fifth aircraft on landing
is told to go around. In fact, if you are told to follow someone in
for a landing, you can take for granted that he won't clear the runway
in time and you'll be told to go around. It's tiresome and
frustrating after spending a lot of effort to line things up nicely.

How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.

Once or twice a year, and it's usually caused by something the controllers
couldn't have anticipated.

My co-pilot did a go-around yesterday. We were 7 miles in trail of the MD-80
as we turned final. 5 miles of separation is normal, so he kept the speed up
at 210 knots. A Learjet in front of the MD-80 slowed to final approach speed
around glideslope intercept which is unusual. The MD-80 remarked that he
didn't know a Lear could go that slow. The tower replied that he didn't know
it either. The MD-80 had to slow sooner than normal. We slowed too, but
seperation was down to 4 miles, which is closer than normal but still
acceptable. We could only slow to 145 kias because reports of 15 knot
windshear on short final made the FO uncomfortable with doing a full-flap
landing. After the MD-80 crossed the threshhold, the tower cleared a Delta
MD-80 into position and to be ready to go. There was a long pause for a
reply. Then the MD-80 asked the tower to confirm the instructions. The tower
then cleared the Delta flight for an immediate take-off. There was another
pause before the MD-80 started to move. Then they transmitted on top of each
other as the MD-80 read back the instructions and the tower canceled the
take-off clearance. We were at 500' and the Delta flight was just starting
to roll. The spacing was too close for the FO's comfort and we did a
go-around.

D.

Recently, Mxsmanic posted:

In simulation, the simulated ATC seems to be very inefficient at
spacing aircraft, because practically every fifth aircraft on landing
is told to go around. In fact, if you are told to follow someone in
for a landing, you can take for granted that he won't clear the runway
in time and you'll be told to go around. It's tiresome and
frustrating after spending a lot of effort to line things up nicely.

How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.

As has been pointed out to you numerous times before, you are responsible
for separation. Could it be that is the lesson MSFS is trying to teach
you? Perhaps this is a good opportunity to recognize that your attitude is
an impairment to safe flying, and a change could be beneficial.

Neil

Neil Gould writes:

As has been pointed out to you numerous times before, you are responsible
for separation. Could it be that is the lesson MSFS is trying to teach
you?

No. It sounds like a bug in the ATC simulation, if the simulation
does not match real life.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
In simulation, the simulated ATC seems to be very inefficient at
spacing aircraft, because practically every fifth aircraft on landing
is told to go around. In fact, if you are told to follow someone in
for a landing, you can take for granted that he won't clear the runway
in time and you'll be told to go around. It's tiresome and
frustrating after spending a lot of effort to line things up nicely.

How often does this happen in real life? I should think and hope that
real controllers can space aircraft better so that it's rarely
necessary to abort a landing.


This is because the AI in MSFS isn't smart enough to get the AI operated
aircraft of the runway in a timely manner.