Aircraft manufacturers and their reputations

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/eclip...pecifications/


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
|
| "Viperdoc" wrote in message
| ...
| You also probably won't see an Eclipse for under $2
million delivered, by
| the time one actually adds up the cost of a reasonable
avionics package
| and interior.
|
| Hourly operating costs will likely be on the order of
$800-1,000.
|
| I read someplace that eclipse is expecting around $600 an
hour.
|
| What is the standard avionics package in the Eclipse?
|
|
|

Kingfish wrote:

Newps wrote:

Kingfish wrote:



Not sure where you got that figure from, Woodland Aviation is
advertising an '06 G58 for $1.26 million. I wonder how Beech can sell
it for that kinda dough when the Eclipse is 150kt faster for $1.4M
scratching head

The Eclipse will cost well north of $100K per year to operate, that's
how Beech sells Barons.


What are you basing that figure on?

Several magazine articles and several friends with jets. Nobody
shopping for a Baron looks at any VLJ as an optional plane. The VLJ
will replace the King Air, Conquest, Cheyenne, etc. One friend has a
Caravan on amphibs. Annual insurance cost is $38K. He also has a
Citation, annual insurance premium is $95K. One trip a year to Flight
Safety is a chunk of change too. Operating a jet is so much more
expensive than any piston as to never, ever compare on an apples to
apples basis.

Matt Barrow wrote:
Hourly operating costs will likely be on the order of $800-1,000.

(KFTheir figures are $372/hr based on 500hrs annual utilization. I think
those figures might prove to be conservative (salesmanship?) but I'd
guess the actual costs will be closer to their number instead of yours

What was Jet-A selling for when they ran the numbers?

Don't know, but fuel is only a small (not insignificant, though) part
of operation cost for a jet with engines that small. Their projected
price of 1.5M for June '06 suggests that might be their time frame
reference for determining cost.

Newps wrote:

(KFWhat are you basing that figure on?

Several magazine articles and several friends with jets. Nobody
shopping for a Baron looks at any VLJ as an optional plane. The VLJ
will replace the King Air, Conquest, Cheyenne, etc. One friend has a
Caravan on amphibs. Annual insurance cost is $38K. He also has a
Citation, annual insurance premium is $95K. One trip a year to Flight
Safety is a chunk of change too. Operating a jet is so much more
expensive than any piston as to never, ever compare on an apples to
apples basis.

Eclipse uses $32k for annual insurance cost on their site, but I've
read about it being as high as $42k depending on an individual pilot's
time & ratings. Either way, I sure won't be writing a check anytime
soon : ) I realize Barons & VLJs are apples & oranges, and most
people wouldn't cross-shop the two types. That being said, I guess I
was just amazed by the relatively minimal (purchase) price increase to
go 150kt faster.

"Newps" wrote in message
news
Not sure where you got that figure from, Woodland Aviation is
advertising an '06 G58 for $1.26 million. I wonder how Beech can sell
it for that kinda dough when the Eclipse is 150kt faster for $1.4M
scratching head

The Eclipse will cost well north of $100K per year to operate, that's
how Beech sells Barons.


What are you basing that figure on?

Several magazine articles and several friends with jets. Nobody shopping
for a Baron looks at any VLJ as an optional plane. The VLJ will replace
the King Air, Conquest, Cheyenne, etc. One friend has a Caravan on
amphibs. Annual insurance cost is $38K. He also has a Citation, annual
insurance premium is $95K. One trip a year to Flight Safety is a chunk of
change too. Operating a jet is so much more expensive than any piston as
to never, ever compare on an apples to apples basis.

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affordability/economics/ (Compare the Eclipse
500 and the Baron)

What are the overall reputations of manufacturers like Cessna,
Raytheon Beechcraft, Piper, Mooney, Cirrus, and all the others?

Cessna and Piper are "Everyman Planes". They are engineered well to
last as long as you maintain them, with similar performance and
features. The only real difference between them is high wing versus
low wing design.

Beech appeals to the Cadillac/Mercedes crowd. Everything is
over-engineered, heavy, and imparts the feel of quality. They will
last forever, but you will pay a pretty penny for both acquistion and
maintenance. ($1.7 million for a new Baron is, IMHO, insane -- but
Beech found 17 people last year who were both smart enough to earn that
much, and dumb enough to spend it all on a piston twin.)

Mooney sets themselves apart as the "Mazda Miata" of the bunch. Fast,
efficient, fun to fly, not necessarily very useful for a family of
four, but great for a couple. They've failed multiple times.

Cirrus is the new doctor killer. Lots of money up front, a sleek
airframe, great features, great to fly, but only affordable only by the
rich and (not necessarily) proficient.

Lancair (or Columbia) is like Cirrus on steroids, without the 'chute.
A very, very cool plane. (If I didn't have a wife and kids, I'd be
living in a Columbia 400... ;-)

Commander is (was) always known for quality, beefy construction, and
expense. Sort of like Beechcraft, without the history. They failed.

Maule has an interesting reputation. Everyone loves them as kind of a
"throw-back plane", yet no one seems to think they're built
consistently well. The design is very durable, however, so it's
apparently forgiving of this trait.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Matt Barrow wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
news

Not sure where you got that figure from, Woodland Aviation is
advertising an '06 G58 for $1.26 million. I wonder how Beech can sell
it for that kinda dough when the Eclipse is 150kt faster for $1.4M
scratching head

The Eclipse will cost well north of $100K per year to operate, that's
how Beech sells Barons.


What are you basing that figure on?

Several magazine articles and several friends with jets. Nobody shopping
for a Baron looks at any VLJ as an optional plane. The VLJ will replace
the King Air, Conquest, Cheyenne, etc. One friend has a Caravan on
amphibs. Annual insurance cost is $38K. He also has a Citation, annual
insurance premium is $95K. One trip a year to Flight Safety is a chunk of
change too. Operating a jet is so much more expensive than any piston as
to never, ever compare on an apples to apples basis.


http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affordability/economics/ (Compare the Eclipse
500 and the Baron)

Using an Eclipse site for cost comparisons is pretty funny. I'd like to
see some unbiased data.

Matt

Matt Barrow wrote:
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affordability/economics/ (Compare the Eclipse
500 and the Baron)

Eclipse sez $29K to insure a Baron? Yikes. That makes a 10 year old B58
look a lot more attractive to a buyer huh? But if you MUST have glass...

Matt Barrow wrote:
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affordability/economics/ (Compare the Eclipse
500 and the Baron)

Eclipse sez $29k to insure a new Baron? Yikes. Kinda makes a 10 year
old B58 a bit more attractive to a buyer, huh? But, if you MUST have
glass...

"Kingfish" wrote in message
oups.com...

Matt Barrow wrote:
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affordability/economics/ (Compare the
Eclipse
500 and the Baron)

Eclipse sez $29K to insure a Baron? Yikes. That makes a 10 year old B58
look a lot more attractive to a buyer huh? But if you MUST have glass...

IIRC, light twins have the highest accident rates...by far.