Gentle take-offs at high speed

(Scott) wrote:
My gut tells me that I should't retract my gear until I have enough altitude
that, in the event of engine failure, there's enough time to extend the gear
again before landing. But I'm not a pilot yet, and I could be wrong.

It depends. If you're executing a maximum performance climb to clear
terrain, you need to get the gear up quickly. The gear being down adds a
huge amount of drag.

On a big runway, the usual mantra is to keep the gear down as long as
there's enough runway in front of you that you could land straight-ahead if
you had an engine failure. Even on the 6000 foot runway I fly from, that's
still only a few seconds after rotation.

I sure hope you're talking about a "game" or PC sim Baron.
In the real world, there is no way in hell to keep a Baron
on the ground at 100 knots. They want to fly. Fifty years
ago, the manual said you lifted off in 600 feet at 60 mph.
That was well below Vmc and if an engine died, so did you.

Modern practice is to keep light twins on the runway until
Vmc and lift off at Vmc +5 knots. Climb at or above Vyse
[blue line] until at or above circling minimums.

Simulators are great things IF you treat them like the real
thing and follow "real world" procedures. Consider paint
ball gun battles. You can stand out in the open and hose
your "enemy down" all day and never get hurt. Try that with
real guns and you're dead in about 3 seconds.




"Viperdoc" wrote in message
m...
|A good technique to stay in ground effect in the Baron that
I fly is to push
| forward on the yoke as you accelerate to between 100-120
K, and then retract
| the gear. This guarantees that you will remain in ground
effect.
|
| A brisk pull back on the yoke will then establish a climb
attitude.
|
|
| wrote in message
|
ups.com...
| Friction. Think to yourself, which is going to be less
draggy..
|
| a) speeding along the ground, tyres creating friction
with the ground
| b) speeding along in ground effect, tyres not creating
friction with
| the ground
|
| get off the ground, accellerate in ground effect to
desired climb
| speed, climb away and enjoy. Especially when the
surface is less than
| perfect.
|
|
|

I was incorrect in the previous post regarding the Baron. I generally keep
the plane on the ground with firm forward stick pressure until reaching
about 120 knots, and then light the RATO packs, followed by immediate gear
retraction, and then pitch up to around 45 degrees. This produces an ROC of
around 4000fpm until reaching the flight levels.

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 17:25:01 GMT, "Viperdoc"
wrote:

I was incorrect in the previous post regarding the Baron. I generally keep
the plane on the ground with firm forward stick pressure until reaching
about 120 knots, and then light the RATO packs, followed by immediate gear
retraction, and then pitch up to around 45 degrees. This produces an ROC of
around 4000fpm until reaching the flight levels.

Strangely enough, this reminds me of an EAA meeting this week. Our speaker was a
chapter member who has led the construction of two full-scale ME262s. The
Stormbird was designed as a point-defense fighter so they have a high initial
ROC and a fairly restrictive fuel load (2 hours). The replicas use GE J-85s
and weigh about 6,000 pounds less than the originals...they climb about 7,000
FPM but carry the same fuel.

They flew a 262 to a destination in company with a Cessna Citation. But the
Citation was limited to more prosaic climb rates. The 262's fuel consumption
was so greatly increased by the extra time at lower altitudes that they almost
had to land early....

Ron Wanttaja

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
...
I sure hope you're talking about a "game" or PC sim Baron.
In the real world, there is no way in hell to keep a Baron
on the ground at 100 knots. They want to fly. Fifty years
ago, the manual said you lifted off in 600 feet at 60 mph.
That was well below Vmc and if an engine died, so did you.

I remember the day Beech sent out a new revision for our King Air A90. All
it did was remove the short field takeoff section. Just as you suggest for
the Baron.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

At light weight, the 90 thru E90 King Airs do pretty well on
take-off with an engine loss, but at gross they are
definetly under-powered. The F90 has 750 hp and is still a
handful on one engine. I really like the 300-350 King Air,
it will perform just like advertised. An engine failure
before V1 and you stop on the runway. Past V1 you have
performance to continue into the air and to a safe landing.
Having 1050 hp gearbox and a 1700 hp gas generator really
helps. At a light weight, climb rate on two engines is over
4,000 fpm, can't say how much, that is because the rate is
pegged. Didn't have a stopwatch running.
Took off solo one day at Wichita for a short trip south, had
only 2 hours fuel. Departed 1 R at Wichita (1330 MSL) and
did a chandelle on take-off to the right. Rolled out at
9,000 feet MSL still over the airport.


It was very gentle, except I did have to go back to the
baggage compartment after landing in Oklahoma to get my
chart bag, the steep deck angle made it fall down the aisle.



"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jim Macklin" wrote
in message
| ...
| I sure hope you're talking about a "game" or PC sim
Baron.
| In the real world, there is no way in hell to keep a
Baron
| on the ground at 100 knots. They want to fly. Fifty
years
| ago, the manual said you lifted off in 600 feet at 60
mph.
| That was well below Vmc and if an engine died, so did
you.
|
| I remember the day Beech sent out a new revision for our
King Air A90. All
| it did was remove the short field takeoff section. Just as
you suggest for
| the Baron.
|
| Karl
| "Curator" N185KG
|
|

"Jim Macklin" writes:

In the real world, there is no way in hell to keep a Baron
on the ground at 100 knots.

I'm sure that pushing the stick forward works well. If there were no
way to keep a Baron on the ground at 100 kts, then no Baron could ever
crash at a speed of more than 100 kts, since its intense desire to fly
would keep it from contacting the ground.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Y'All,
To learn something that is basically incorrect presents TWO problems. If
this is the first way you learned to perform it will be your first selection
of options when under stress.

Secondly, the greatest single quality of knowing something that has
fundamental faults is that
unlearning such a fault is the most difficult part of you knowledge to
remove.

Learning to do something correctly FIRST is the most important part of all
performance.
Think on it,
Gene Whitt


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
"Jim Macklin" writes:

In the real world, there is no way in hell to keep a Baron
on the ground at 100 knots.

I'm sure that pushing the stick forward works well. If there were no
way to keep a Baron on the ground at 100 kts, then no Baron could ever
crash at a speed of more than 100 kts, since its intense desire to fly
would keep it from contacting the ground.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Is there any harm in taking off at a relatively high speed and very
gently? There seems to be plenty of runway in most cases for small
aircraft. If I leave the ground at 120 kts instead of the normal
rotation speed, I find that I can lift off ever so gently. Plus I
have lots of airspeed if something goes wrong during my gentle climb.
Are there drawbacks to this that I'm missing?

Yes.

m