Jep p or NACO Charts?

Judah wrote:

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out
the extra money?

I used to think so. I've been using Jepps since my instrument training, but
I've chucked them after my subscription expired late this year.

As an experiment, I bought one of the NACO DVD's from Sporty's. I already
had an older laptop with a DVD drive and took that along with me on a recent
trip. I printed the approaches I expected (and a couple extra just in case)
and had those ready to go. However, as Murphy could have predicted, as I
neared my destination I heard "change in routing, advise ready to copy". It
involved a plate I hadn't printed, but I was able to quickly look it up on
the laptop (readable even on the sunny day) and accept the clearance.

The DVD includes all approaches for the continental US and costs less than
$14 including standard shipping. The interface of the NACO plates has been
updated to be more in line with Jepp and the quality of the printing is as
good as your printer and paper. The PDF's used on the DVD are far superior
to the scanned images formerly offered by AOPA, et al.

Bottom line, even with the added expense of low altitude charts, I get far
superior chart coverage for much less money than I could ever hope to afford
with Jepp. I still prefer (however slightly) the interface of the Jepp
plate, but that alone isn't enough of a factor for me if I'm the one footing
the bill.

I already had a suitable laptop. If I were to buy a laptop primarily for
this purpose, the cost equation would be somewhat different. As it stands,
I was paying ~$120/year for a Jepp Mid-Atlantic Express subscription. Now I
can get the entire continental US for $50 more per year. No longer do I
have to worry about trip kits or buying NACO charts with different
interfaces.

Of course, it could be argued that I've already paid the taxes that
subsidize the cost of the NACO plates, but that's a discussion for another
forum.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

In article , SFM wrote:
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
Roy: This is why I switched to the Express packs. NO 8 week updates or end
of year checklists, just every 56 days throw out the old and insert the new

You still get updates. I've gotten two envelopes for the same subscription
in the same day. Also, they don't replace some of the sheets (like the
fold out maps) so you have to fish them out of the old stack. Even when
they do re-print them they are packed separately and you have to cut
them in. Even though they replace "everything" every 56 days you still
can't just pull the plastic off and stick the pile into a binder. For
example, all of the state cover pages are at the front, not with the
states. The pile breaks into 5-10 sections (states, various kinds of
notams) and if you want the dividers in the right place you still have
to find all of those breaks. Also, certain sections (like the intro
material) are only replaced every other update now.

And that's why I'm not renewing.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
Roy Smith wrote
I suspect this is going to be an unpopular opinion, but...

The idea that my tax dollars are going to pay for somebody to read a
computer printout to a pilot when he could read it himself just as
easily is absurd. Or for that matter, to play data entry clerk with
flight plans.

I'm going to reluctantly agree with Roy.

Reluctantly because there is one thing a personal briefing can do that
is very valuable and requires an actual human being - weather
interpretation. As a novice pilot, I learned a lot about weather from
those FSS specialists who took the time to explain what was going on
and suggest ways of dealing with it. It allowed me to make a lot of
trips that I would have cancelled otherwise, and caused me to
(correctly) cancel a couple that I would have made. There really is
no substitute for depth of experience when it comes to understanding
what the weather is likely to do, and how it can be handled.

The problem is that such briefings have been getting more and more
rare over the years. More and more briefers simply read you the
computer printout, and those who do attempt to make suggestions are
less and less knowledgeable. The old guys are retiring, and the new
guys are just don't have the same depth and breadth of knowledge.

I would second that view too. On my west Coast trip I really appreciated the
chance to talk to a real briefer and check out my interpretation of the
weather with his.

Added to this was the comment from a couple of FSSs when I gave then the
contact details that they had spoken to a few people doing the trip in the
past and knew exactly what I was doing, I am sure they went out their way to
be very, very helpful. Besides which I suppose there are not too many
people they get to talk to at 5.30 in the morning. (No delays and no call
queues either at that time)

Personally the FSSs I spoke to on the whole trip were universally helpful
and generous with their time and information and even apologised when I
asked them to speak more slowly as I was having difficulty with the accent
or the speed of delivery. There was even a sense of humour.

On FSS commented on my strange English accent and saw the funny side of his
remark when I said that being English, I had the real English accent and he
had the strange English accent.

The FSSs are brilliant and you guys are lucky to have them.

Chris

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

Nope. Not to this relatively new instrument pilot. But the point about Jepps'
better printing quality is valid as is the point about how hard they are to keep
updated if you don't pop for the more expensive replacement system.

Take a look at http://www.seattleavionics.com/default.asp

They sell a nifty piece of software that pulls "packs" of current NOS plates
from the internet and prints them for you 2-up. Fold the printed sheet in half,
Jepp punch it, and you have your easy-to-handle plates on good quality paper.
It's much, much easier than trying to download plates for yourself. (Steel Jepp
type punches are $20 from Franklin Covey. $40-50 from Jepp or Sporty's. And the
Covey ones are good quality and smaller.)

So my plan is to print out guaranteed fresh plates for expected places on each
trip and to carry NOS books as backup, expecting to use the books very seldom.
This is pretty new, but so far it looks good. The software is a one-time cost,
no subscription needed, and it gets the plates directly from NACO so if
seatlleavionics.com goes belly-up you don't care too much.

And, no, I have no financial interest in seattleavionics.com. I just like the
product.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:02:42 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

wrote:



Maybe, but the Class II notams are available to anybody doing a DUATS
briefing, for free and more current (and again, no updating pages)

They lose the pictures for the few that contain them.

And if you use a FSS there's no guarantee you'll get them.


Pictures?

We don't need no steenking pictures.

YES - Definately worth it - JEPP makes charts easier to read and understand.

"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

I used Jepp plates until the local shop stopped selling Express Packs
because Jeppesen quit offering dealer prices. I would have had to go to a
full subscription which would be ~$300 a year for my area versus 12 NACO
books and 6 airway charts or about $75 annually. Jepps are nice plates but
they're not worth 4x the price for me.

-cwk.

"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

Save your money. NACO is fine. (I prefer it.)

Another 2c... I used Jepps through my training and mostly since. I buy
Jepp Express retail at my local pilot shop. I guess it's pretty
expensive but I don't worry TOO much about that.

A few months back Jepp briefly seemed to exit the retail business, so I
was forced to switch to NOS. Retail, and including all the enroute
charts and the like that are part of the Jepp package, it seems about
half the price. However I was doing some instrument currency work at
night and found the NOS charts harder to read than Jepp (e.g. the
approach heading is in tiny type and hard to find when the workload is
already high). So now, since my pilot shop has Jepp again, Ive switched
back to Jepp.

If I buy charts for strictly once-only usage, i.e. a trip outside the
California coverage of Jepp, I generally buy NOS because they are just
so much cheaper under those circumstances.

John

Judah wrote:
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:35:22 -0500, "Dick" wrote:


"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

Save your money. NACO is fine. (I prefer it.)


One feature of NOS that Jepp doesn't have is the small airport diagram
on each plate, with the final approach track shown.

This can be useful when making a circling approach to a strange
airport, as it gives a pictorial representation of what the pilot will
see as he approaches the field, and helps with planning the circling
maneuver.