Instrument Student Pilot Filing IFR

Jim Macklin wrote:
The reason is in the FAR, you have to be a certificated and
current instrument rated pilot, in an aircraft certified for
IFR flight to file an IFR flight plan.

No such FAR.

Simply filing the flight plan OR operating in IMC condition
is a violation. IFR flight plan in VMC is a violation
unless the PIC NAMED, not just PIC is legal.

PIC must be named on ANY flight plan (IFR or VFR).
91.153 (a)(3) The full name and address of the pilot in command.

The IFR plan only adds the alternate airport.

(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph
(e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command
under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar
months, that person has:


so you're correct, you can file, but you can't fly.




"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| The reason is in the FAR, you have to be a certificated
and
| current instrument rated pilot, in an aircraft certified
for
| IFR flight to file an IFR flight plan.
|
| No such FAR.
|
| Simply filing the flight plan OR operating in IMC
condition
| is a violation. IFR flight plan in VMC is a violation
| unless the PIC NAMED, not just PIC is legal.
|
| PIC must be named on ANY flight plan (IFR or VFR).
| 91.153 (a)(3) The full name and address of the pilot in
command.
|
| The IFR plan only adds the alternate airport.

Jim Macklin wrote:
The reason is in the FAR, you have to be a certificated and
current instrument rated pilot, in an aircraft certified for
IFR flight to file an IFR flight plan.

There is no requirement for an instrument rating for *filing* an
instrument flight plan, only for accepting a clearance. There is no
requirement for any kind of aircraft certification for *filing* a flight
plan.

Simply filing the flight plan OR operating in IMC condition
is a violation.

Filing a flight plan is not a violation.

IFR flight plan in VMC is a violation
unless the PIC NAMED, not just PIC is legal.

Meteorological conditions have nothing to do with it. I don't find a
regulation that uses the terminology "PIC NAMED". Perhaps there is case law.

In article . net,
"Roy N5804F" wrote:


Well thanks to all for the input so far.
The consensus seems to be that an instrument student cannot file an IFR plan
in his own name.
The basis of that opinion seems to hinge on who is PIC.
I am not sure, but I think that electronic filing via AOPA flight planner
would not give you any opportunity to use other than your own name ?
So maybe all filing would have to be done via the telephone or radio.

Roy

Just put "PIC is XXX" in the comments box (fill in your instructor's name).

Actually, the only purpose I can think of for requiring the pilots name
is for search and rescue purposes. If it is for regulatory reasons,
then there should be a better way to make sure that no one else is
using your name in their flight plans. Since ATC is not verifying the
identify of the pilot every time they issue a clearance, I don't see
how the pilots name could be used for anything meaningful beyond S&R.

This also raises the question of whether a student pilot can put his
name down as PIC for a dual cross country flight.



Roy Smith wrote:
In article . net,
"Roy N5804F" wrote:


Well thanks to all for the input so far.
The consensus seems to be that an instrument student cannot file an IFR plan
in his own name.
The basis of that opinion seems to hinge on who is PIC.
I am not sure, but I think that electronic filing via AOPA flight planner
would not give you any opportunity to use other than your own name ?
So maybe all filing would have to be done via the telephone or radio.

Roy

Just put "PIC is XXX" in the comments box (fill in your instructor's name).

Guys I appreciate all the input, no one asked me why I posed the thread
question.

But as you will all realize, I started this thread because of a personnel
experience.
I am a few hours away from my instrument check ride.

In the recent past my instructor had been asking me to plan & file weekly
IFR training flights to specified satelite airports within Class B airspace.
He looked over my planning, but never changed my routings, so I could learn
from either being "cleared as filed" or struggle with an entirely different
clearance.
I filed the IFR plans in my own name, but added "Instrument Training Flight"
in the comments section on my own inititive.
I was hoping that I might be given an easier time by ATC by declaring the
flight plan as a training flight.
Also I frequently advised clearance delivery that I was a student instrument
pilot.
At first my CFII would listen in while I gained my clearance but as the
flights accumulated and I gained proficiency he just made sure that I had
the clearance with no missing data. He also encouraged me to file at
altitudes which would put us in actual IMC as much as possible.
In fact he would chastise me if my filed height was between layers. I had
not studied the weather properly !
I felt very fortunate to be getting real IFR experience, flying well and
truly in the system, before getting the rating.

Alas, my instructor is no more and his replacement, a very decent and young
enthusiastic CFII, is astounded that I was filing and getting my own
clearances.
Now he does the planning, file the plans and gets the clearances. I fly the
plane while he talks to ATC. He is PIC and may as well take the left seat.
However, as I said, he is a nice guy and he is giving me the final few
hours that I need to log before being eligable for the checkride.
Ok I have arguably bust the FAR's, but I know which guy I would prefer in my
right seat !

Roy

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

In article . net,
"Roy N5804F" wrote:


Well thanks to all for the input so far.
The consensus seems to be that an instrument student cannot file an IFR
plan
in his own name.
The basis of that opinion seems to hinge on who is PIC.
I am not sure, but I think that electronic filing via AOPA flight planner
would not give you any opportunity to use other than your own name ?
So maybe all filing would have to be done via the telephone or radio.

Roy

Just put "PIC is XXX" in the comments box (fill in your instructor's
name).


Neat one Roy !

Roy N5804F wrote:

Is it legal for a non-instrument rated pilot to file IFR in his own name in
order to undergo instrument training while accompanied by his CFII ?
In other words.
Who should file IFR for a training instrument flight ? The student or the
CFII ?

Thanks for input


The person who is ABLE to legally recieve the clearance is who's name is
listed as PIC. The student can file.. but the CFII's name goes on the plan.

The person who is ABLE to legally recieve the clearance is who's name is
listed as PIC. The student can file.. but the CFII's name goes on the
plan.


How do the heavy crews handle this stuff. ?
Does the dispatcher list who is PIC ?

Roy

yep
"Roy N5804F" wrote in
message
ink.net...
|
|
|
| The person who is ABLE to legally recieve the clearance
is who's name is
| listed as PIC. The student can file.. but the CFII's
name goes on the
| plan.
|
|
| How do the heavy crews handle this stuff. ?
| Does the dispatcher list who is PIC ?
|
| Roy
|
|
|