American pilots charged in Amazon jetliner crash

Blueskies wrote:


From what I undersand there is very liitle freedom of the press in Brazil...



And yet you want these pilots to go back and stand trial. That certainly
adds up.

Jim Macklin wrote:
And a felon in another county is still considered a felon in
the USA, say good bye to your civil rights.




Not if a US Federal judge and the Sec State decide not to extradite them.

"BS" == Blueskies writes:
BS This should
BS definitely be something that the state dept should be heavily
BS involved in, but not a word from them as far as I know.

"State" should be doing all kinds of things in many problem areas of
the world...but look at their record the last 6 years. Why should
their leadership suddenly become competent on this issue?

--
I sent the club a wire stating, Please accept my resignation. I don't
want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.
Groucho Marx

Read Mr Sharkey's blog mentioned in the previous link. State is doing
nothing to aid the pilots in this matter. State is too concerned with
alienating the new Brazilian government to protect US citizens.

Bob Fry wrote:

"BS" == Blueskies writes:


BS This should
BS definitely be something that the state dept should be heavily
BS involved in, but not a word from them as far as I know.

"State" should be doing all kinds of things in many problem areas of
the world...but look at their record the last 6 years. Why should
their leadership suddenly become competent on this issue?

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

Greg Farris wrote:
I don't know how things work in Brazil.
It could be similar to Europe, where a full investigation of the accident
cannot be completed without naming purported "perpetrators" and
subjecting them
to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two pilots are named as
defendants does not preclude the naming of the air traffic controlers as
well.

One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts a very strong
emphasis
on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving little place for
the
argument that a system design weakness may be equally to blame, if not
more so.

I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back there - This would
even
seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed to leave!!

Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S. citizen in the
U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue arrest warrents for
U.S. citizens in the U.S..

And the same treaties allow the US to issue warrants in foreign countries
for the arrest of foreign nationals too. So what is the issue. You don't
expect a US citizen to receive a fair trial in a foreign country? It could
be argued that a foreigner would not get a fair trial in the US. Hell many
US citizens don't get a fair trial in the US.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message ...
: It gets worse than that. The gun laws in the USA, the Brady
: Instant Check, the Lautenberg amendments, the Form 4473 all
: check and ask if you are a "fugitive from justice" and if
: those pilots do not go back to Brazil and get cleared, they
: will be criminals here if the presently own, possess or buy
: any firearms.
:
:
:

And if they are ATPs, could they have their ticket yanked (no pun intended...)?

Greg Farris wrote:
In article .com,
says...


Americans always get ****ed off when the U.S. deports U.S. citizens to
stand trail in foreign countries. Why do you think this will be
different?


With all due respect, you're being a bit hard-headed about it.
You keep responding with generalities about extradition and US marshals
and all that jazz, when what people here are trying to say to you is that
it is, in fact, the specifics of this case that make it appear likely they
will not be going back there. Who knows, we may be wrong - but that's what
it looks like.

I"m not sure why you say that. I think the gov't fully expects them to
return. I'm not sure why there were down there but its also likely that
their jobs require frequent returns there. In anycase, to do return,
without legal resolution means they are living life on the run and may
be arrested at any point in the U.S. No the way most people like to
live. It also prevents them from being employable by any airline
(outstanding warrents in any country)

-Robert

601XL Builder wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:
And a felon in another county is still considered a felon in
the USA, say good bye to your civil rights.




Not if a US Federal judge and the Sec State decide not to extradite them.

Which can happen at any time, any time of the day. In 6 years you could
be sleeping in bed with your wife, kids in the next room and the U.S.
Marshalls rush through the door and arrest your. That's not how most
people like to live.

-Robert

Remember they agreed to return.



"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
...
| Robert M. Gary wrote:
| Greg Farris wrote:
| I don't know how things work in Brazil.
| It could be similar to Europe, where a full
investigation of the accident
| cannot be completed without naming purported
"perpetrators" and subjecting them
| to a criminal investigation. The fact that the two
pilots are named as
| defendants does not preclude the naming of the air
traffic controlers as well.
|
| One possible weakness of such a method is that it puts
a very strong emphasis
| on the importance of human imperfections, while leaving
little place for the
| argument that a system design weakness may be equally
to blame, if not more so.
|
| I agree the US pilots would be crazy to EVER go back
there - This would even
| seem to be implicit in the fact that they were allowed
to leave!!
|
| Its not unheard of for U.S. Marshalls to arrest a U.S.
citizen in the
| U.S. to stand for a warrent in a foreign country....
| http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/09/14/dog.bounty/index.html
| U.S. treaties allow for foreign countries to issue
arrest warrents for
| U.S. citizens in the U.S..
|
| -Robert
|
|
| Yes but a US court and the Secretary of State will decide
in the bounty
| hunter case if he is extradited. The same would happen in
the case of
| the pilots.

BATFE and the FBI decide, not the SecState, the warrant
still exists and they're still a fugitive. Same if you have
a traffic ticket in Florida and don't pay it. They will
issue a warrant and you become a fugitive from justice.
When you go to but a new shotgun, rifle or handgun, or renew
your concealed carry permit, the warrant will turn up.


"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| And a felon in another county is still considered a
felon in
| the USA, say good bye to your civil rights.
|
|
|
|
| Not if a US Federal judge and the Sec State decide not to
extradite them.