Opinions please, preferred pattern joining methods

Fly an extra 10 miles? For what purpose? Just enter the left downwind
and land. Don't make this more difficult than it has to be. The more
time you spend in the terminal area the more risk you have.



wrote:
But the first seems much more manoeuvring, possible preventing as good
a look out as the second option. I'm actually wondering if the second
seems more practicle.

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:54 -0800, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:


I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that, neither
the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you describe.
Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
. ..

Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

Agreed. Over the airport in a descent, enter left dowwind and land. Eyes
and ears peeled the whole way. Broadcast my intentions in as concise a
manner as I can. Or just enter behind the last pilot.

Frankly, If I were approaching from the NW and saw someone from the NE do a
"cross, fly out, RH 225 to the 45 entry", I would be totally confused and
surprised to see that you are landing at the same airport I was aimed at.
But my eyes would be on you the whole way.

The only thing I wouldn't do is fly a right hand pattern at a LH runway.
Otherwise enter whatever leg is shortest or follow the last plane in the
pattern.

"Newps" wrote in message
...
Fly an extra 10 miles? For what purpose? Just enter the left downwind
and land. Don't make this more difficult than it has to be. The more
time you spend in the terminal area the more risk you have.

Maule Driver wrote:
Agreed. Over the airport in a descent, enter left dowwind and land. Eyes
and ears peeled the whole way. Broadcast my intentions in as concise a
manner as I can. Or just enter behind the last pilot.

Frankly, If I were approaching from the NW and saw someone from the NE do a
"cross, fly out, RH 225 to the 45 entry", I would be totally confused and
surprised to see that you are landing at the same airport I was aimed at.
But my eyes would be on you the whole way.

Well, I've managed to stay out of this thread 'til now, but the pressure is
irresistible.

I see some merit in the 225 deg turn to the 45 entry.

Descending onto the downwind from across the field puts any traffic already on
the downwind underneath me and made more difficult to see due to my low wings
and the ground-clutter background. As I make a descending left turn, my view of
the airplane I am about to cut off is blocked by my rising right wing.

On the other hand, with the 225 deg turn to the 45 entry method, I cross the
downwind safely above pattern altitude, and in my 225 deg right turn I have a
full view of the downwind and my lowered right wing is out of the way. I view
the downwind from pattern altitude, so I am looking for traffic against the sky
instead of against ground clutter. My own airplane is in a turn for several
seconds, presenting a more visible profile and increasing the opportunity for
other pilots to see me.

Enter upwind crosswind on the 45 north of the field, procede with left
turn to downwind for R36.

I'd enter on crosswind about a mile north of the airport. I'd have a
view of the whole runway.

Your scenario would also be a good one, especially if I were trying to
sort out traffic.


wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

Depends on what the weather is, and if there is VFR traffic. If it is
IFR conditions and no VFR traffic is observed, then circle anyway as you
please, while looking out for traffic.

If there are other VFR traffic, I don't like either of your options. Too
much maneuvering for the first option, and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.

I would fly slightly west to intercept the extended downwind and merge
with the traffic.

Alternatively, you could fly south, pass overhead and turn directly
downwind. I wouldn't do the descending 225-degree right. Way too much
maneuvering near the traffic pattern. You could do this if you go a few
miles out, but you are wasting time and fuel on something that could be
accomplished quite easily and safely.




wrote in news:cfiqv0hgqs3mic8c9hr1cv87rpeiikqji2@
4ax.com:

Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

Too
much maneuvering for the first option,

Yup.

and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.

Why? If you're approaching from a direction that is straight in to your
runway, what would be safer--flying all over the area to set up for a
downwind?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote in
:


"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

Too
much maneuvering for the first option,

Yup.

and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.

Why? If you're approaching from a direction that is straight in to your
runway, what would be safer--flying all over the area to set up for a
downwind?



The final leg is where two airplanes are most likely to come in contact.
This is where they are converging towards the runway, and the pilots are
least likely to be scanning. This is also when two airplanes will be at
different altitudes, making them harder to spot. How many times have you
followed a traffic in the pattern and lost visual contact after it turns
final? A straight-in is notorious for inaccurate distance estimates.
However, I do straight-ins when the situation calls for it. But I've had
several close encouters that makes me think twice in such situations. All I
am saying is that it warrants extra caution compared to other entries.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...

Depends on what the weather is, and if there is VFR traffic. If it is
IFR conditions and no VFR traffic is observed, then circle anyway as you
please, while looking out for traffic.


Anyway I please? What about FAR 91.126(b)?



If there are other VFR traffic, I don't like either of your options. Too
much maneuvering for the first option, and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.


Why is it best to avoid straight-ins when there is VFR traffic?

wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I guess you could do an abbreviated version of the overhead join, whereby
you descend on the dead side (on the east) and then when you get to circuit
height, cross the northern end of the runway, effectively joining the
circuit on the crosswind leg. Normally with an overhead join to a left-hand
circuit you'd be approaching from the "live" side of the circuit at 2,000
feet or so, but as you're on the dead side already, this doesn't apply.

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Probably not favourable, as you're in the vicinity of traffic in the circuit
but as you're in a right turn, you won't have a particularly good view in
the direction you're turning (particularly if you have a high-wing
aircraft). All you need is for someone to be doing what my instructor used
to call "V-bomber circuits" (i.e. not keeping them tight and close in) and
you're in a potentially sticky spot. With the crosswind join you're already
flying in the direction of the circuit when you start, and the main lookout
will be for departing traffic, which until you get to the runway will be
forward of your nine o'clock. If you converge onto the downwind from 45
degrees you'll be looking over your left shoulder to try to spot people,
which isn't ideal.

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

That's probably the nicest way. Actually the absolute nicest way would be to
join on a right-hand downwind (we often have both directions working at once
at my home field), but in a non-ATC situation you would want to stick with
the official way.

D.