Cost of ownership????

On Mar 21, 5:42 pm, Ben Jackson wrote:
On 2007-03-21, Lou wrote:

I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into. Has anyone either made this

I even put it on the web:

http://www.ben.com/flying/costown.html

mmm, fuel is actually DOWN since I last updated it!

Nice work. I played with it and it looked exciting (hmm, I think I can
fly 80 hours if I have to to break even) then I saw that there was no
place to plug in the costs of the aircraft loan. Depressing to know
that even if someone GAVE me a plane I would have to fly 80 hours to
do better than my club. Sigh. Off to buy more lotto tickets.

On 2007-03-23, xyzzy wrote:

Nice work. I played with it and it looked exciting (hmm, I think I can
fly 80 hours if I have to to break even) then I saw that there was no
place to plug in the costs of the aircraft loan.

You could throw the interest in on one of the monthly or annual
expenses. The value of the airplane itself is largely recoverable,
it's just not very liquid. The spreadsheet does cover wear and tear
costs like engine reserve.

Perhaps someone else can make a spreadsheet that covers all the
variations in aircraft financing.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD

http://www.ben.com/

On Mar 21, 7:20 am, "Lou" wrote:
I (like everyone else) am considering purchasing a plane. I've looked
up the cost of ownership in this group and came up with some good
information. However, I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into. Has anyone either made this or know where to
download one? It's probebly not hard to do but I thought I would look
here first. Anybody? Anybody? Anybody?
Lou


With apologies to Jack Nicholson: "I can't handle the truth!"

On Mar 21, 6:20 am, "Lou" wrote:
I (like everyone else) am considering purchasing a plane. I've looked
up the cost of ownership in this group and came up with some good
information. However, I'm looking for a spreadsheet that I can plug
the numbers into.

Forget the spreadsheet. The single most important thing you should do
as an owner is to fly a lot. 150+ hr a year. 200+ hr is even
better. Do that for a few years, and if your funds is getting low,
sell the plane and you can say to youself that you had owned a plane
once, flew to many interesting places, and it didn't cost you more
than renting, and you were able to make trips that a renter won't be
able to do. Mortgage your house if you have to, but you *must* keep
flying a lot of hours a year as long as you own it. It's worth it.

The worst thing you can do as a owner is to let the maintenance cost
eat up all your gas money, and you ended up keeping a hangar queen for
the next owner, one with a rusty engine no less. There's nothing
sadder than that.

The worst thing you can do as a owner is to let the maintenance cost
eat up all your gas money, and you ended up keeping a hangar queen for
the next owner, one with a rusty engine no less. There's nothing
sadder than that.

A far worse injustice is leveled on many airplanes. Namely, the owner
cannot really afford the plane so they choose to buy gas to fly around
and then skimp on the maintenance. He/she then demands a ridiculous
selling price for their run out dog when the HAVE to sell.

In either case, if you have to ask, you likely cannot afford it. Those
using spreadsheets and trying to calculate this down to the dime may
want to consider that airplanes don't require cash according to a
schedule. If you don't have $5k - $10k laying around at all times (and
not in the form of a loan), you are going to have a tough time making
ownership work out.

Airplane ownership is NOT like a car or boat. You are not an owner, but
a temporary steward of an increasingly rare object. I consider it my
responsibility to keep an airplane in good shape (repairs, upgrades,
etc.). Many people (especially in my home America) have a hard time with
this concept. They are accustomed to buying things and then throwing
them away when they become old or inconvenient.

Good luck,
Mike

On Mar 25, 5:56 am, Mike Spera wrote:

A far worse injustice is leveled on many airplanes. Namely, the owner
cannot really afford the plane so they choose to buy gas to fly around
and then skimp on the maintenance. He/she then demands a ridiculous
selling price for their run out dog when the HAVE to sell.

Well, nobody is forced to pay a ridiculous price for a run out plane.
The seller can ask all he wants, but the buyer can simply go somewhere
else. Eventually the market will take care of the price.

I consider it my
responsibility to keep an airplane in good shape (repairs, upgrades,
etc.). Many people (especially in my home America) have a hard time with
this concept.

Repairs, absolutely. Upgrades? I'd rather see owners skip that
GNS430 install and use that money to fly across the country three
times and visiting places. Of course it would be nice to do both, but
most people had to choose one vs. another. A lot of owners chose to
be a curator instead of an aviator.

The problem with GA isn't people not taking care of old planes. It's
people not flying enough. Unless your plane is a P-51, I don't see
anything wrong with old plane gets used up and eventually goes to
junkyard if it's used up for good reasons, like 20,000 hr on the wing
spar. The problem with GA isn't people not taking care of old
planes. It's people not flying nearly enough. If GA flying hour is
10x of today and all the old planes get used up in about 10 years,
we'll have a much healthier GA industry and the new planes are likely
to be less than half of what they cost today because of the large
volume production.

On Mar 25, 6:56 am, Mike Spera wrote:
The worst thing you can do as a owner is to let the maintenance cost
eat up all your gas money, and you ended up keeping a hangar queen for
the next owner, one with a rusty engine no less. There's nothing
sadder than that.

A far worse injustice is leveled on many airplanes. Namely, the owner
cannot really afford the plane so they choose to buy gas to fly around
and then skimp on the maintenance. He/she then demands a ridiculous
selling price for their run out dog when the HAVE to sell.

In either case, if you have to ask, you likely cannot afford it.

Good luck,
Mike

I've allways loved to hear that line. It makes me think of all the
people who buy a house and end up
in bankruptcy. I suppose these are the same people who didn't ask
either. Unless you have milions comming
out your ass, what kind of person wouldn't find out ahead of time what
the entire cost of somthing is ahead of
time? After all, who is dumb enough believe that they are just going
to make the payments without getting the maitenance cost? Oh thats
right, the person who didn't ask. It seems to me, if you have to ask,
your smart enough
to own it, not dumb enough to buy it and not be able to take care of
it. Plane or otherwise.
Lou

"Lou" wrote in message news:
I've allways loved to hear that line. It makes me think of all the
people who buy a house and end up
in bankruptcy. I suppose these are the same people who didn't ask
either. Unless you have milions comming
out your ass, what kind of person wouldn't find out ahead of time what
the entire cost of somthing is ahead of
time? After all, who is dumb enough believe that they are just going
to make the payments without getting the maitenance cost? Oh thats
right, the person who didn't ask. It seems to me, if you have to ask,
your smart enough
to own it, not dumb enough to buy it and not be able to take care of
it. Plane or otherwise.

Lou's right. Owners may not be able to predict every dime they will spend
but they need to do at least a general assessment of the financial
requirements. Every book on ownership [rightly] says to do this. I remember
seriously thinking about getting a Lake Amphibian as my first airplane
because of visions of landing on the lake at my folks' house. I didn't have
to crunch too many numbers to get that idea outa my head.

Now I use my spreadsheet to plan for a possible upgrade in airframes. With
requirement of six seats, I know the approximate costs in buying and
maintaining a Saratoga or an 36-series Bonanza. I don't know when I'll be
able to jump into it, but at least I can be sure I won't jump into it too
early.

Marco

In article ,
"Marco Leon" wrote:

With
requirement of six seats, I know the approximate costs in buying and
maintaining a Saratoga or an 36-series Bonanza.

Compare weight & balance on any aircraft you are considering.
Always calculate takeoff and landing C/G and compare.

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:56:23 GMT, Mike Spera
wrote:



The worst thing you can do as a owner is to let the maintenance cost
eat up all your gas money, and you ended up keeping a hangar queen for
the next owner, one with a rusty engine no less. There's nothing
sadder than that.

A far worse injustice is leveled on many airplanes. Namely, the owner
cannot really afford the plane so they choose to buy gas to fly around
and then skimp on the maintenance. He/she then demands a ridiculous
selling price for their run out dog when the HAVE to sell.

In either case, if you have to ask, you likely cannot afford it. Those
using spreadsheets and trying to calculate this down to the dime may
want to consider that airplanes don't require cash according to a
schedule. If you don't have $5k - $10k laying around at all times (and
not in the form of a loan), you are going to have a tough time making
ownership work out.


Most airplanes will develop an average or ball park figure for a
particular make and model for the cost per hour against the number of
hours flown per year. OTOH there is no guarantee that any single
airplane of the same make and model flown the same hours per year will
come any where near that figure. I could easily go out and even with
a good pre buy inspection end up with one that cost double the average
figure, or I *MIGHT* get one that is considerably cheaper and I have
to emphasize the odds against that.

Airplane ownership is NOT like a car or boat. You are not an owner, but
a temporary steward of an increasingly rare object. I consider it my

I think the same way about my cars, cameras, radios, and other objects
I own.

responsibility to keep an airplane in good shape (repairs, upgrades,
etc.). Many people (especially in my home America) have a hard time with

Upgrades are something else. If you own an old airplane it may be
worth more in the original condition than upgraded.

Even though the Deb has been heavily modified I've had two museums
want the thing. They are willing to give me one whale of a deduction,
but I don't need deductions, I need cash. Besides it's the only
airplane I've owned outright and I've kinda developed an attachment to
it and really don't want to part with it. For me to sell it some one
would have to want it a lot worse than I do and I seriously doubt
that's going to happen, so yes, I did purchase my lottery ticket for
tomorrow night.


this concept. They are accustomed to buying things and then throwing
them away when they become old or inconvenient.

Good luck,
Mike
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com