A question from a lurker

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in
ups.com:

I am glad you started your post with "I have the greatest respect for
pilots". That is exactly the right thing to say if you want help from
us. This is where Mxsmaniac failed. He never told us that we were
special people.

I think you are creating a wrong impression here. From my observations of
your postings in the past, I don't believe it is intentional.

It's not necessary for a non-pilot to announce that he has respect for
pilots before we will answer his questions. The problem is not that Manic
didn't tell us we are special, the problem is that he specifically
disrespects pilots as a group (in a manner that sometimes reminds me of a
racial bigot), and frequently belittles anyone who tries to assist him in
answering his questions.

I should admit that I do in fact believe that I am unique and special. I
believe nearly all people in the world are unique and special. Learning to
fly an airplane safely and demonstrating it to the point that my
government
acknowledges it is certainly an accomplishment that I am proud of. But I
have achieved many accomplishments in my life for which I am proud, and
even some for which I am not. No single success or failure in itself
defines me as unique and special. It is all of my traits and experiences
that make me unique and special, and that have allowed me to accomplish
the
specific feats that I have and will during my lifetime.

So while I certainly appreciate it when someone else expresses it,
admiration of me is not a prerequisite for me offering respect and
courtesy
to another, especially to someone who genuinely wants my advice or help.
Perhaps I am unusually altruistic, but I don't think so. Usenet is defined
by people who would seem to behave the same way.

OTOH, some people are insecure about their being unique and special. So
they put down someone else's accomplishments in order to make their own
seem "better". I believe Manic falls into this category. And I believe
some
of the people who treat Manic badly do too. Others are treating Manic that
way because they feel it is the only way to protect the friendly R.A.P.
atmosphere that they value. They do not realize that the unfortunate
result
is that they are perpetuating some of the myths that Manic is attempting
to
spread. It's not completely their fault - they just can't see clearly.

But the OP should not assume that the ugly Manic threads are
representative
of pilot's attitudes toward non-pilots in general. I don't know any pilots
who wouldn't gladly give a non-pilot stranger who expressed interest a
tour
of their aircraft. Even those who might not offer a ride because of the
liability fears would at least be willing to show how the plane works on
the ground, and encourage the person to get a low-cost intro flight and
"catch the bug".

We tried to do that for Manic, and he essentially spat in our faces and
told us we are elitist snobs who don't know anything about flying. Many
have not reacted well, and Manic is an expert instigator.

But it's not the typical RAP conversation.

Good job, and very well put.

I have had a good bit of experience on the Usenet in a number of different
groups, and never had to _stroke_ anyone, anywhere, to gather a lot of
really good information. And my experience here on RAP has certainly been no
different.

I have seen so many productive threads here, with no regard for who was or
was not actually a pilot, that I refuse to believe 95% of the PILOTS here
even care. The only time actual experience it questioned, is when someone
continues to pass out bad information or opinion, and Anthony insists on
doing both. As well as deliberately trying to irritate people that try to
help him in the mean time. Simply because they have to disagree with his
limited understanding of aviation beyond the limits of simulation.

"Maxwell" wrote in
:

Good job, and very well put.

Thanks for the kudos.

I am not a pilot but have the greatest respect for those you are.

I am not a pilot either, but I am a former student--and plan to return and
finish up in the foreseeable future.

Most here wish to share their pleasure with non-pilots and I thank you for
your posts. But some wish to maintain an elitist group. Perhaps that
elitist
behaviour reduces the support you may have from non-pilot members of the
community when facing the current FAA proposals.

The pilots I have met in New Zealand are respectful and always willing to
answer even stupid questions.

Same here. However, Mxsmanic has managed to infuriate a large number,
perhaps even a majority, of pilots, former pilots, future pilots, student
pilots, etc.

I was introduced to flight sim in 1998 by an airline pilot who had an
elaborate setup that he said improved his skills. I lost interest after a
year or so but he maintains an expensive, powerful system. Flight Sim is
not
an evil threat to real aviation and may promote an empathy for real
aviation
issues.

Flight Simulators, including MSFS, are usefull tools--especially for
procedure training and practice. However, the low end simulators, such as
MSFS, do have some "interesting" limitations.

I recently had an opportunity to play with an MSFS setup, although I did not
have the oportunity to start by reading the manual or even asking some of
the most rudementary questions first. It only gradually became clear that
the aircraft was a Beechcraft King Air--so, of course, I crashed.

However, my point in mentioning my little comedy of errors is to illustrate
a limitation of the MSFS modeling. I believed, incorrectly, that I was
flying a trainer--and flew it much too slow. In fact, I was flying it in a
stalled condition; but the plane remained quite responsive in roll, and
steep turns didn't seem to affect it at all. I didn't spin it in, as I
richly deserved, but ... :-(

I am often interested in the answers to the questions of Mxsmaniac but the
elitists here would rather deride. There are probably other non-fliers
lurking who are too scared to ask for fear of getting the Mxsmaniac
treatment. Yes, I know he has offended some.

Some????

Do pilots follow the white lines on taxi-ways or swing wide as
truck/trailer
drivers must do? Are they just a night aid?

Richard


Most of us, here and on R.A.S, either fly or flew small aircraft--where the
pilot sits approximately on the CG and the wheelbase is quite short.
Therefore, our primary concern is wing tip clearange on the parking ramp.

Much larger and heavier aircraft may have an additional need to keep the
wheels on the full strength portion of the pavement--which may or may not be
the entire paved surface. A study of airport markings and signage is in
order, and some may vary with location--for example, taxiway center lines in
the USA are yellow.

There are pilots here who fly large aircraft, and who therefore know the
correct procedures for taxiing, but they may be too annoyed to respond since
they would be instructing Mxsmanic as well. IMHO, they are correct, since
everyone who has reason to move large aircraft has access to specific
instruction.

As a little added background, Richard, you are undoubtedly aware that one of
the MSFS views allows you to watch as an observer following behind your
aircraft. It is rather obvious that you know who was taxiing his private
737 that way in the similar thread, unless he has moved up to something
bigger.

Remember my most important point: I doubt that anyone here actually flies
large aircraft unless they are paid to do so!

Peter

On Mar 31, 8:48 pm, "Peter Dohm" wrote:


There are pilots here who fly large aircraft, and who therefore know the
correct procedures for taxiing, but they may be too annoyed to respond since
they would be instructing Mxsmanic as well. IMHO, they are correct, since
everyone who has reason to move large aircraft has access to specific
instruction.

Peter, this is a very insightful post you have made. You are wise
beyond your experience level. You are the only one so far who has made
reference to what we call the load bearing surface of taxiways. The
main reason for overstearing is to keep the MLG on this load bearing
surface.At smaller airports, it also keeps the engines over the
taxiway where there is less FOD, snowbanks, etc..
I have to respectfully disagree with you on the MX issue. He is only
one poster, and is easily ignored. The problem is all the other self
appointed aviation experts on this list that chase most experienced
people off. A good case in point is a thread I saw a few months ago
about an airline crew experiencing a near midair. This story was
obviously fabricated (The OP later admited it was), and yet the people
who pointed this out were flamed by the self appointed experts, some
even AFTER the OP admited the story was embelished. Another good
example is the threads dealing with aerodynamics. Here is where alot
of the EXPERTS beleager stuff well beyond the point of anything having
to do with the actual flying of an aircraft. When someone DOES post a
correct answer, the experts often ignore it and just keep on arguing.
For kicks I have looked at the "View Profile" function and this makes
it easy to see if a guy has ever had anything useful to add.Sadly, it
is these types who make people decide that they have better things to
do with their time.
Hope you get back to it soon.
KB


Peter

There are pilots here who fly large aircraft, and who therefore know the
correct procedures for taxiing, but they may be too annoyed to respond
since
they would be instructing Mxsmanic as well. IMHO, they are correct,
since
everyone who has reason to move large aircraft has access to specific
instruction.

Peter, this is a very insightful post you have made. You are wise
beyond your experience level. You are the only one so far who has made
reference to what we call the load bearing surface of taxiways. The
main reason for overstearing is to keep the MLG on this load bearing
surface.At smaller airports, it also keeps the engines over the
taxiway where there is less FOD, snowbanks, etc..
I have to respectfully disagree with you on the MX issue. He is only
one poster, and is easily ignored. The problem is all the other self
appointed aviation experts on this list that chase most experienced
people off. A good case in point is a thread I saw a few months ago
about an airline crew experiencing a near midair. This story was
obviously fabricated (The OP later admited it was), and yet the people
who pointed this out were flamed by the self appointed experts, some
even AFTER the OP admited the story was embelished. Another good
example is the threads dealing with aerodynamics. Here is where alot
of the EXPERTS beleager stuff well beyond the point of anything having
to do with the actual flying of an aircraft. When someone DOES post a
correct answer, the experts often ignore it and just keep on arguing.
For kicks I have looked at the "View Profile" function and this makes
it easy to see if a guy has ever had anything useful to add.Sadly, it
is these types who make people decide that they have better things to
do with their time.
Hope you get back to it soon.
KB


I had completely forgotten the infamous exploding transformer case. As a
former avionics tech, I must say that story had more holes than a large
block of Lorraine Swiss Cheese!

Thanks for the complement, and I will get back to flying as soon as
practical.

Peter

Richard wrote:


I am often interested in the answers to the questions of Mxsmaniac
but the elitists here would rather deride. There are probably other
non-fliers lurking who are too scared to ask for fear of getting the
Mxsmaniac treatment. Yes, I know he has offended some.

Mx gets the same treatment in the sim groups too.
He's just an idiot troll.
--
Oz Lander.
I'm not always right,
But I'm never wrong.

In article ,
"Richard" wrote:

The issues with MX have little to do with the fact that he's not a pilot
and a lot to do with the fact that he has poor manners. In the beginning
I tried to answer his questions with pointers to the applicable FARs and
suggestions for further reading and he was rude in response. Heck with
him.


Do pilots follow the white lines on taxi-ways or swing wide as truck/trailer
drivers must do? Are they just a night aid?

I don't know of any FAR that requires them to be followed. I've been to
plenty of airports that didn't have any lights or markings for the
taxi-ways, and some that didn't have taxi-ways.

At larger airports they often have reflectors along the center line to
make them more visible so at those I'll taxi slightly left of the center
line so my nose wheel doesn't go "thump thump thump" as it hits the
reflectors.

I took my PP check ride on a very windy day and the examiner himself
recommended taxiing on the upwind side of the crowned taxi-way in windy
conditions to improve handling and to keep the upwind wing from lifting.

Richard;
No offense meant here, but you might want to research this matter just a bit
more before reaching any final conclusions about elitists on these groups.
There might be a few here and there, but this really isn't the problem
concerning this specific issue.
Dudley Henriques

"Richard" wrote in message
...
I am not a pilot but have the greatest respect for those you are.

Most here wish to share their pleasure with non-pilots and I thank you for
your posts. But some wish to maintain an elitist group. Perhaps that
elitist behaviour reduces the support you may have from non-pilot members
of the community when facing the current FAA proposals.

The pilots I have met in New Zealand are respectful and always willing to
answer even stupid questions.

I was introduced to flight sim in 1998 by an airline pilot who had an
elaborate setup that he said improved his skills. I lost interest after a
year or so but he maintains an expensive, powerful system. Flight Sim is
not an evil threat to real aviation and may promote an empathy for real
aviation issues.

I am often interested in the answers to the questions of Mxsmaniac but the
elitists here would rather deride. There are probably other non-fliers
lurking who are too scared to ask for fear of getting the Mxsmaniac
treatment. Yes, I know he has offended some.

Do pilots follow the white lines on taxi-ways or swing wide as
truck/trailer drivers must do? Are they just a night aid?

Richard

"Richard" wrote:
I am not a pilot but have the greatest respect for those you are.

I am not a pilot either but try to respect everyone - pilot or not. It is
only when I get to know a particular individual that I may lose respect for
that one person. Or I may gain even more respect for that person.

I am often interested in the answers to the questions of Mxsmaniac but
the elitists here would rather deride. There are probably other
non-fliers lurking who are too scared to ask for fear of getting the
Mxsmaniac treatment. Yes, I know he has offended some.

As a non-flier I do not use the Usenet groups as a primary source of
information of flying. It is great, though, for getting pointers to where
to find authoritative information and some of the stories and posts do
provide concepts to ponder over that help cement the knowledge gained
elsewhere. Or cause me to re-think and re-investigate things I thought I
learned correctly!

Hi Richard,
Usually pilots keep the nosewheel on the centerline, unless there is
reason not to. Some of the posters here brought up good reasons not to
stay on center. One thing that I don't think has been mentioned is
that sometimes ATC makes the decision for you . An example would be
when two aircraft are comeing toward eachother on the same taxiway.
The dialog often goes something like this:

"Cessna 123, Somewhere Ground Control, remain to the right side of
taxiway A , watch for the Caravan approaching you"
"Cessna 123, staying to the right."

The wording can vary quite a bit, to include moving for vehicles,
equipment, new taxi clearances, etc. I also realize, obviously, (and
as mentioned by other posters) that even if ATC isn't involved or on
the field airplanes tend to steer around one another and go off the
taxi centerline

Nice meeting you Richard. We aren't all bad mannered pilots here,
please post and hopefully you will get the answers you need. Don't let
the few turds around here keep you away- I don't post much, but there
are some really great people in this group.

Jamie