What GA needs

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
This is a follow-on to the various discussions on the future of GA.

Why aren't the kids who grew up with cell phones and iPods not
interested in aviation?

One key factor is the antiquated airplanes we fly. If we could only
drive a1975 Chevy Nova or something similar, with bolted down wooden
panels and foggy instruments, I doubt many teenagers would be earger
to get their drivers license.

But if we "sell it" as a '75 Lola, Aston Martin, or 'Vette... G

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:59:28 -0000, Dave J
wrote in
. com:

Still, I don't know why the editors at AOPA
Pilot and Flying, etc, get so excited over Columbias and Cirri. These
are nice aircraft, but are not in the reach of most flyers now, and
definitely not in the reach of the flyers necessary to revive GA, get
the volumes up, and get a "reverse death spiral" cooking.

Fractional ownership might change that.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:59:28 -0000, Dave J
wrote in
. com:

Still, I don't know why the editors at AOPA
Pilot and Flying, etc, get so excited over Columbias and Cirri. These
are nice aircraft, but are not in the reach of most flyers now, and
definitely not in the reach of the flyers necessary to revive GA, get
the volumes up, and get a "reverse death spiral" cooking.

Fractional ownership might change that.

You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been around
for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs in the past.

John Jones wrote:
On Sep 10, 5:58 pm, Dave J wrote:

By the way, cheap intergenerational shots don't help to bring in new
customers, either!

Exactly.

I think the way everyone treats him is by far the most visible
indicator as to why younger people get turned off to aviation.


You do realize MX is in his 40's don't you?

I'm not enough in touch with kids these days to know what motivates
them, though I'm sure that basic human motivations do not change over
time.

So I agree that the equipment should not be ancient. The noise level
is much too high. The cost is too high. The turbine approach would
likely help with the noise problem, but turbines are pretty
inefficient compared with piston technology. The turbo-diesel design,
to me, represents the future of GA power in a world of expensive fuel.

Certification and liability costs together appear to be the major
obstacles to getting costs under control. Yet the aircraft must be
"forgiving", and people should be able to sue against serious design
flaws.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been around
for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs in the past.



And now, it's for hot rods, too!

http://www.velocity-club.com/index.cfm

I got handed a brochure for this while checking out the new Lotus models
and a GT-40 at Lime Rock two weeks ago.

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:22:51 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:


You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been around
for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs in the past.

You are obviously unaware of the recent regulation changes concerning
fractional ownership. You can start your research he

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/fractional/
Fractional Aircraft Ownership Regulation Background & Rulemaking

Fractional ownership operations began in 1986 with the creation of a
program that offered aircraft owners increased flexibility in the
ownership and operation of aircraft. This program used current
aircraft acquisition concepts, including shared or joint aircraft
ownership, and provided for the management of the aircraft by an
aircraft management company.

The aircraft owners participating in the program agreed not only to
share their own aircraft with others having a shared interest in that
aircraft, but also to lease their aircraft to other owners in the
program (dry lease exchange program). The aircraft owners used the
common management company to provide aviation management services
including maintenance of the aircraft, pilot training and assignment,
and administration of the leasing of the aircraft among the owners.

During the 1990's the growth of fractional ownership programs was
substantial and this growth is expected to continue. As these programs
grew in size, complexity and number, there was considerable
controversy within the aviation community as to their appropriate
regulatory structure. Additionally, the FAA had evolving concerns
regarding issues of accountability and responsibility for compliance
(operational control).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAA Amends Regulatory Compliance Date for Fractional Operations
On December 14, 2004 the FAA issued a notice that corrects the date by
which all fractional operations must be in compliance with FAR Part
91, Subpart K. NBAA was expecting the correction that changes an
incorrect December 17, 2004, compliance date to February 17, 2005. All
fractional operations will be in compliance with the new rule by the
February 2005 deadline.

Download the notice as it appeared in the Federal Register (52 KB,
PDF)
Federal Register Publishes Fractional Ownership Final Rule
September 17, 2003
On September 17, the FAA's final rule "Regulation of Fractional
Aircraft Ownership Programs and On-Demand Operations" was published.
The rule sets regulatory standards for fractional ownership operations
(Part 91, Subpart K) and updates requirements for on-demand charter
operations (Part 135).

Download the rule as it appeared in the Federal Register (404 KB, PDF)

B A R R Y wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been
around for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs in
the past.


And now, it's for hot rods, too!

http://www.velocity-club.com/index.cfm

I got handed a brochure for this while checking out the new Lotus
models and a GT-40 at Lime Rock two weeks ago.

You have just hit on the instant gratification problem which might be the
real root cause of the downfall of aviation.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

You have just hit on the instant gratification problem which might be the
real root cause of the downfall of aviation.

You have just mentioned the problem that's probably responsible for the
downfall of lots of activities that involve learning any sort of skill.

--Whiny voice on--

"It's too complicated!"
"Awww... Do I HAVE to do it again?"
"Who has time for THAT?"

--Whiny voice off--

I see it in woodworking, craft hobbies, even bicycling.

In recent years, the radio control flying hobby has been flooded with
models built in Chinese factories, so participants don't have to "waste"
time building (and therefore learning to repair) a model. Lots of
people who didn't "waste" even more time learning how to fly, fly them
once and crash, then give up the hobby.

No matter how money much we spend on a bicycle, riding it probably won't
be all that enjoyable if we don't ride on a regular basis.

I've read that the #1 leisure time activity in the USA is shopping. 8^(

On the other hand, I don't necessarily put the exotic car club in the
same category, due to the ability for a true enthusiast to drive a
diverse set of vehicles. I'd put it more toward a good flying club that
has aircraft available for a variety of different missions.

I would definitely extend the need for instant gratification to the
sub-prime mortgage debacle. Nothing down? Ridiculously low payment?
Why read the paperwork or pay an attorney to explain it to me in plain
English? I also see it with people who are willing to hand their entire
life's savings to some investment advisor without putting any effort
into learning about the products the money gets invested in.

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:22:51 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in
:


You say that like Fractional ownership is a new thing. It has been
around for years. We just called it partnerships and flying clubs in
the past.

You are obviously unaware of the recent regulation changes concerning
fractional ownership. You can start your research he



I'm well aware of it. That doesn't really change the fact that fractional
ownership is an evolution of partnerships and clubs as opposed to a
revolutionary change in ownership. In fact what you posted pretty much
explained how one came from the other.

The reasons regulations had to be propagated was because you basically had
one partnership leasing planes to members of other partnerships. This
basically made fractional ownership a sort of hybrid of clubs and
partnerships.