Stay in, or get out?

peld wrote:

Like you I thought I would have problems. I used to think that the leg
would catch on the panel and come off, but that wasn't a problem at
all.

I have a "naked" limb (no cosmetic wrappings, just an anodized shaft)
and, as a result, often have to disengage the heel of my shoe while
getting out after a flight. It catches on the lip on the cross-beam that
supports the stick and front of the seat pan in my Libelle. I've always
wondered if that would be a problem during emergency egress.

I imagined that the shoe would depart before my leg came off: the liner
seems to have a pretty good grip on my remaining bits.

As for landing, I came down on my backside, don't ask me how, and
the leg was no problem at all then. However, I badly bruised my coccyx
and jarred my back pretty bad.

My sympathies: damaged backs are no joke, but as you say getting down in
one piece is all that matters. Thanks for the explanation of why your
leg wasn't affected.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I've always thought it would be a good idea to take
hold of the rip-cord handle before finally leaving
the glider. Did you do that, and, if you didn't, did
you get hold of the handle quickly and easily?

At 11:00 12 September 2007, Peld wrote:
Dan,
I had the unfortunate experience of having to leave
my glider in
January after a mid air. The other glider had impacted
my left wing
and severed it about half a metre from the root,and
also broke the
tail boom midway between the wing and the tail. He
was able to land
but I had to make a quick exit, which was my first
parachuting
experience. I had no doubts that I would have to jump,
and previous
training and preparation took over.
The glider had started a spin to the left and it took
some time to
get rid of the canopy (PUSH on it after you activate
the releases!),
but I was actually surprised how easy it was to get
out of the
cockpit. Having undone the harness it seemed like no
trouble at all to
just roll over the canopy rail and out into the wild
blue yonder. I
have a below knee artificial right leg so I had considered
this
scenario for some time, expecting to have a lot of
trouble just
getting my leg past the instrument panel, but no, it
was really a
piece of cake. I put it down to the fact the gravitational
force was
less as the glider was diving and all I had to do was
push away from
it. A NOAH sytem would have been redundant I feel.
Luckily, the spin
hadn't developed to the stage where the centrifugal
forces were high,
even though it had seemed to take forever to get out;
in fact it was
probably only seconds.
The chute worked as advertised (it had been repacked
2 months
previously), opening in 3 seconds (or so it seemed)
and there was no
way I was going to do any stabilising. I used that
ripcord as soon as
I could. Adrenalin does amazing things. I was upside
down when the
chute opened, but the shock of it soon had me the right
way up. I did
get some pretty severe bruising around the groin and
shoulders, but I
was alive and thats what counted. Then there was the
landing. I
couldn't see the ground properly because the shock
of the opening
chute ripped my glasses off, and I hit before I was
ready, and I hit
very heavily, once again with absolutely no proper
tecnique, but I was
alive.
As far as I am concerned everything worked and the
end result was
good. I just hope no one else has to try out their
parachute.

Phil

Probably not a good idea, for a couple of reasons:

1. You may need both arms to get out, or may only have one working (or
free) arm available to get out. And you HAVE to get out before using
the chute (with one possible exception).

2. If you are holding the rip-cord during egress, you probably
increase the chance of an early chute deployment, and possible
entaglement with the glider.

A better plan is to practice finding your rip-cord while wearing your
chute - using your eyes to guide your hands to where it should be.
This should be tried both standing up, crouching, spread-eagled; any
position you think you might assume after exiting the glider. Also,
note that the rip-cord handle (D-ring) may be jarred loose from it's
housing during the bailout, and you might have to locate it by finding
where the rip-cord exits the chute housing and following the rip-cord
wire to the D-ring. Think about it, look carefully at your parachute,
and practice actually deploying it when you drop it off to get it
repacked - you may be surprised how hard (or easy) it is to pull. I
like to setup a scenario with my rigger, then talk myself through the
timeline of a mid-air and bailout (CANOPY, STRAPS, EXIT, FIND D-RING,
PULL, CHECK CANOPY etc), until I pull the rip-cord and the chute
"deploys". My chute always surprises me with an "easy" pull, compared
to some military training jumps I did long ago that required two hands
to move the D-ring!

The exception mentioned above? You can't get out of the cockpit.
Last resort,(canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward as far as you
can (pull youself using the instrument panel), then pull the rip-
cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider. It may not be pretty,
thought!

Ref FLARM: Unfotunately, we pathetic Americans are specifically
prohibited from using it. Not that it would do much good in most
parts of the US, glider density is way too low. And I can't even get
most pilots in my club to set their altimeters to QNH! So the chance
of there being pressure to introduce a similar system in the US is
pretty low, IMHO...

Kirk
66

On Sep 12, 11:04 pm, Mark Dickson
wrote:
I've always thought it would be a good idea to take
hold of the rip-cord handle before finally leaving
the glider. Did you do that, and, if you didn't, did
you get hold of the handle quickly and easily?

At 11:00 12 September 2007, Peld wrote:


Mark,

I didn't have a hold of the ripcord as I left the cockpit, I was too
busy trying to hold my glasses on. I think my priorities may have been
a bit askew at that stage. Also I was using as much energy as I could
to get over the side, and also looking to see that I wasn't going to
hit the wing on the way out. The wing that wasn't there any more by
the way. To be quite honest, I don't even recall pulling the ripcord,
but as has been mentioned on here, I had practised doing that plenty
of times on the ground and obviously the practise paid off. I did hang
on to the ripcord all the way down to the ground and I fully intend to
frame it!

At 19:00 12 September 2007, Toad wrote:
On Sep 12, 12:46 pm, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Sep 11, 4:33 pm, Paul Hanson

wrote:
For the really safety minded (and thick walleted)
a
BRS, NOAH, a personal chute, a helmet (might have
saved
more lives than you may think) and all the other
gizmos
mentioned already, including the condom, although
admittedly
the helmet may significantly reduce the need for
that
one

Paul,

I have been thinking it would be nice to have a study
of crashes to
determine if a helmet wold have saved many lives.
We fly at speeds up
to 200 mph, yet do not require a helmet of pilots.
I have been
looking at helmet types that would allow good vision
and movement in
gliders without excessive weight for the G's we pull.
Has anyone done
this type of study and/or tried flight helmets etc
in gliders?

Tim

How many pilots could have been saved by a helmet ?

I can't recall reading too many accident reports that
claim the pilot
died of head injuries, when there wasn't enough other
injuries to be
fatal.

Data any one ?

Todd Smith
3S

Look up the details (if you can find them) of the most
recent US glider fatality (Ridge Soaring Gliderport,
July 14 2007). That pilot was still alive when rescue
crew got to him, but died of his head injuries by the
time he arrived at the hospital according to the newspaper
article I read. I have heard of others as well, but
that one comes to mind off the top of my unprotected
head.

Paul Hanson
"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi

"Paul Hanson" wrote in message
...
At 19:00 12 September 2007, Toad wrote:
On Sep 12, 12:46 pm, Tim Taylor wrote:
... I have been thinking it would be nice to have a study
of crashes to
determine if a helmet wold have saved many lives.
We fly at speeds up
to 200 mph, yet do not require a helmet of pilots.
I have been
looking at helmet types that would allow good vision
and movement in
gliders without excessive weight for the G's we pull.
Has anyone done
this type of study and/or tried flight helmets etc
in gliders?
...

See

http://iac78.org/newsletter/Newsletter_May_2007.pdf

for info on some of the available helmets.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

You obviously wouldn't be holding on to the handle
to the detriment of getting out of the glider, but
I think the last thing you should do prior to falling
is get hold of the handle. Like you said, it might
(probably would have) come loose from it's velcro and
may be difficult to grab in the panic of freefall.
I believe there have been cases of pilots successfully
abandoning their aircraft and the chute not having
been deployed. If you pull the cord after leaving
the glider there is virtually no chance of entanglement.

At 22:00 12 September 2007, wrote:
Probably not a good idea, for a couple of reasons:

1. You may need both arms to get out, or may only have
one working (or
free) arm available to get out. And you HAVE to get
out before using
the chute (with one possible exception).

2. If you are holding the rip-cord during egress,
you probably
increase the chance of an early chute deployment, and
possible
entaglement with the glider.

A better plan is to practice finding your rip-cord
while wearing your
chute - using your eyes to guide your hands to where
it should be.
This should be tried both standing up, crouching, spread-eagled;
any
position you think you might assume after exiting the
glider. Also,
note that the rip-cord handle (D-ring) may be jarred
loose from it's
housing during the bailout, and you might have to locate
it by finding
where the rip-cord exits the chute housing and following
the rip-cord
wire to the D-ring. Think about it, look carefully
at your parachute,
and practice actually deploying it when you drop it
off to get it
repacked - you may be surprised how hard (or easy)
it is to pull. I
like to setup a scenario with my rigger, then talk
myself through the
timeline of a mid-air and bailout (CANOPY, STRAPS,
EXIT, FIND D-RING,
PULL, CHECK CANOPY etc), until I pull the rip-cord
and the chute
'deploys'. My chute always surprises me with an 'easy'
pull, compared
to some military training jumps I did long ago that
required two hands
to move the D-ring!

The exception mentioned above? You can't get out of
the cockpit.
Last resort,(canopy gone) is to unstrap, lean forward
as far as you
can (pull youself using the instrument panel), then
pull the rip-
cord. You WILL be extracted from the glider. It may
not be pretty,
thought!

Ref FLARM: Unfotunately, we pathetic Americans are
specifically
prohibited from using it. Not that it would do much
good in most
parts of the US, glider density is way too low. And
I can't even get
most pilots in my club to set their altimeters to QNH!
So the chance
of there being pressure to introduce a similar system
in the US is
pretty low, IMHO...

Kirk
66

Pretty much the only pilots that wear helmets are military
pilots, and that is probably due to the excessive g
they experience and the forces involved in ejecting.
Also for attaching sun visors, oxygen masks, headphones
and mics. Glider pilots definately do not need helmets;
not in the air anyway, maybe on the ground to protect
against walking into trailing edges.

Mark Dickson wrote:
Pretty much the only pilots that wear helmets are military
pilots, and that is probably due to the excessive g
they experience and the forces involved in ejecting.
Also for attaching sun visors, oxygen masks, headphones
and mics. Glider pilots definately do not need helmets;
not in the air anyway, maybe on the ground to protect
against walking into trailing edges.

I do know of one pilot that wears a helmet while wave flying. It looks
like a military jet pilot's helmet, including the darkened "goggle"
portion that covers the eyes. He does it for the warmth in normal wave
flying, for protection from the bright sun (he doesn't fly wave where I
fly!), to support the oxygen mask, to provide protection from a canopy
that shatters in the cold, and for protection from the wind and cold if
he has to bail out at high altitudes.

He doesn't have any problems with clearance to the canopy, but I think a
lot of pilots would.

I rarely fly above 18,000 in wave, but if I did it routinely, I'd
consider wearing a helmet.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I know of some bush pilots who wear helmets. I opted for the Amsafe air-bag
system when I bought my Husky, figuring it would provide better protection
overall, and be less hassle than a helmet.

I don't have headroom in the glider for a helmet. I do use 1/4" of Confor
(NASA, Tempur etc) foam in the top of my floppy terri hat. It helps keep my
bald noggin from bonking the canopy too hard in rotor and probably helps
protect the canopy too.

One might not think that just 1/4" of extra-firm Confor would do much, but
it does! You can test this by putting the Confor on concrete and then
hitting it with your fist. Hint - don't hit it as hard as you can - - makes
an amazing difference.

bumper

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:gr2Gi.8312$Ic3.1085@trndny09...
Mark Dickson wrote:
Pretty much the only pilots that wear helmets are military
pilots, and that is probably due to the excessive g
they experience and the forces involved in ejecting.
Also for attaching sun visors, oxygen masks, headphones
and mics. Glider pilots definately do not need helmets;
not in the air anyway, maybe on the ground to protect
against walking into trailing edges.

I do know of one pilot that wears a helmet while wave flying. It looks
like a military jet pilot's helmet, including the darkened "goggle"
portion that covers the eyes. He does it for the warmth in normal wave
flying, for protection from the bright sun (he doesn't fly wave where I
fly!), to support the oxygen mask, to provide protection from a canopy
that shatters in the cold, and for protection from the wind and cold if he
has to bail out at high altitudes.

He doesn't have any problems with clearance to the canopy, but I think a
lot of pilots would.

I rarely fly above 18,000 in wave, but if I did it routinely, I'd consider
wearing a helmet.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org