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#31
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Bad Week for Airbus
Mxsmanic wrote in
: writes: Maybe, but I think it's just an instinctive reaction to help your kid first. It's an emotional reaction, and people who are stupid are more likely to allow their behavior to be directed by emotion. Unfortunately, in this case (and in many other cases), yielding to emotion rather than reason leaves people dead. You're an idiot. Bertie |
#32
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Bad Week for Airbus
Phil writes:
Ever heard of lawyers? A lawsuit would only support the notion that parents are too stupid to figure this out without being explicitly told. |
#33
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Bad Week for Airbus
Darkwing writes:
Is there anything you aren't an expert on?? One need not be an expert to know such things. One need only crack open a book from time to time. All this information is out there for people who are interested in looking for it. |
#34
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Bad Week for Airbus
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Darkwing writes: Is there anything you aren't an expert on?? One need not be an expert to know such things. No, but you don't know, it, you're only parroting what you have read with no understanding of hos it works. which makes you a fjukkwit. Bertie |
#35
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Bad Week for Airbus
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Phil writes: Ever heard of lawyers? A lawsuit would only support the notion that parents are too stupid to figure this out without being explicitly told. Nope. You're an idiot. Bertie |
#36
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Bad Week for Airbus
This guy continues to bring knives to intelllectual gunfights.
On Nov 25, 7:11 am, Mxsmanic wrote: Darkwing writes: Is there anything you aren't an expert on?? One need not be an expert to know such things. One need only crack open a book from time to time. All this information is out there for people who are interested in looking for it. |
#37
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Bad Week for Airbus
Tina wrote in
: This guy continues to bring knives to intelllectual gunfights. Bananas, more like. Bertie |
#38
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Bad Week for Airbus
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
... nobody writes: It's really a pretty simple concept, but I've never had it explained on an airline. I don't understand how someone could draw a conclusion that parents are too 'stupid' to understand. If they aren't stupid, they'll figure out for themselves why they should put on their own masks first. I guess you are simply incapable of understanding why someone would make a sacrafice for someone else. |
#39
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Bad Week for Airbus
On Nov 25, 6:10 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Phil writes: Ever heard of lawyers? A lawsuit would only support the notion that parents are too stupid to figure this out without being explicitly told. No, a lawsuit supports the notion that people will sue if given _any_ excuse to sue, regardless of how ridiculous that excuse is. It has nothing to do with the intelligence of the "victim", and everything to do with their greed. Have you ever noticed the warnings on paper coffee cups from fast food joints? Do you seriously think that those warnings are there because people are too stupid to realize that coffee is hot?? |
#40
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Bad Week for Airbus
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:55:05 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote: "Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in m: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message .. . Phil wrote in news:dc605aa6-d47d-4121-bcdd- : On Nov 24, 2:07 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: No, you really can;'t abruptly do anything in an Airbus in the flight mode he would have been in at cruise. The computer won't let you? What if you need to maneuver abruptly to avoid a collision? That's right. It won't let you manuever more thna a given acceleration for the flight mode you are in,particulaly at high alt due to mahc manuevering considerations. Can't give you numbers because I'm not flying one at the moment. I know basically zero about high altitude flying, what are the considerations? Does it have a lot to due with being close to the envelope between flying and stalling in the thin air? Not exactly. Indicated stall speed remains constant with altitude. What does come into play is mach buffet. On the high end of the speed envelope , obviously, you have the air accelerating around the airplane and over the top of the wing and that gives you a buffet which destroys lift. But if you slow the airplane down you have to increase alpha to maintain your line of flight and the increased alpha will accelerate the air over the top of the wing to supersonic even though the airplane is going slower than it was in cruise. Anything that increases the angle of attack, such as putting more weight in the airplane will bring the minimum and maximum speed closer to your cruise speed reducing yuor buffet margins. This means higher weights bring the max altitude down. Loading the wing up with G either by manuevering or an encounter with turbulence and even a forward CG will bring the buffet on sooner, which is why some airplanes pump fuel into the tail after takeoff once the autopilot is engaged. . The one that comes into play here is the G consideration. They were light, so they actually had quite a lot of G available to manuever, but still, if you screw up at either end of the envelope, you have a big problem. By the way, some airplanes operate with a margin of as little as 1.25G. To give this some perspective, a thirty deg bank is 1.15 G. These would be mostly medium long haul operators doing it to save fuel. The margins depend on type.. most are more like 1.4 G. If the airplane falls over, there's a good chance you'll end up through the high end of envelope (too fast) and if that happens three things happen to conspire to screw you. One, the center of pressure shifts back on the wing bringing the nose down, which tends to increase speed, which exacerbates the problem. Two, the center section of the wing is affected more because of Area rule. the fuselage has already accelerated the air when it meets the wing, so the center of the wing is affected more thsan the tips, and since the center of the wing is mostly ahead of the CG the loss of lift there brings the nose down and increases sped which exacerbates the problem. This is mach tuck and though it isn't directly caused by pulling excessive G it is the likely end result of an upset at altitude. The third factor in mach tuck is the stab. As you try pulling the nose up as it's coming down, the increased camber of the stab (wrong way round, f course) will accelerate the air to supersonic levels and buffet the stab. Presto, no elevator control and you're dead. Whatever it was that started that Egyptair airplane down over the Atlantic, what finished them off was Mach tuck. If it develops past a certain point there is almost nothing you can do. So, Airbus have, for better or worse, decided to allow the airplane itself to monitor these inflight parameters and not to allow it to do anything too funky G wise. In reality, it hasn't worked so well. They seem to have just as many upsets as any other aircraft. BTW, a Cessna 172 would have these same problems if you were to get it high enough! There are some high performance homebuilts with blowers that need mach meters, but if you get any airplane up high enough you have mach issues. The airplane they're planning on sending to Mars fits into this category. It's going to be cruising at the equivelant of somthing like a 150,000 even though it's near the surface. I thing they're planning on a 250 knot TAS for it and that will be very tight at those sorts of pressures. Or maybe we should ask Anthony to check it out on his new version of X-plane! Version 9 is out now Anthony! Better get your order in! I'm sure the outpouring of wisdom will wash us away like the great flood. Bertie Bertie and all To add some to your data. The B-47 had what was called the "coffen corner". At high altitude the airspeed was just above the stall and if you increased your airspeed you were into Mach. This required very close attention by B-47 drivers. Big John |
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