Parachute recommendations

On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings wrote:

The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
testify to the low descent and quick opening.

I just took my rig to be repacked today. Being a tall heavy guy,
finding the thinnest rig with adequate descent rate that will allow me
to fit in the cockpit has been a challenge. I currently have a Wedge
Softie with a Performance Design P-235 square canopy. My previous rig
was a Wedge Softie with a round Preserve III canopy that I sold after
being asked time after time by my rigger if I had a desire to be a
lawn dart! I will vouch for the change in comfort mentioned by
Tinwings. Unlike the Preserve III, the P-235 is stuffed into the
container like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound sack. I thought it
would be a problem in the glider but it hasn't really been that bad
and I don't regret making the change.

The PD P-235 Owner's Manual is interesting reading. Particularly the
"Deployment Body Position and Airspeed" and Repack Cycle Sections.
See:
http://www.performancedesigns.com/do...rve_manual.pdf

I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.

Steve

On Mar 17, 7:03 pm, wrote:
On Mar 17, 4:59 pm, Tinwings wrote:



The P124 Aviator isn't a new design. It's been available for about 10
years. For whatever reason it hasn't seemed to catch on. Comfort might
be the reason. I tried one on and there was no way that you could lay
on it for any length of time. I suspect that this will be the case for
any ram air parachute packed in a bag type deployment system (all of
them). The deployment bag, and ram air canopy construction, simply
does not allow the rigger much latitude in how to distribute the
canopy material in the parachute container. The traditional round
parachute with a daiper type deployment system affords the rigger much
greater freedom in how to arrange the canopy in the container. The
result is a much more comfortable rig to lay on.
If the concern is lower descent rate, there is a round parachute that
you might consider - Free Flight Enterprises Preserve V canopy. It is
rated at (if I recall correctly) 254 lbs @ 180kts and has a descent
rate simillar to the P124 canopy. The Preserve V is certified FAA TSO
C23d and is available in the Paraphernalia Softie line of containers.
Allen Silver (Silver Parachute Sales) has jumped this canopy and can
testify to the low descent and quick opening.

I just took my rig to be repacked today. Being a tall heavy guy,
finding the thinnest rig with adequate descent rate that will allow me
to fit in the cockpit has been a challenge. I currently have a Wedge
Softie with a Performance Design P-235 square canopy. My previous rig
was a Wedge Softie with a round Preserve III canopy that I sold after
being asked time after time by my rigger if I had a desire to be a
lawn dart! I will vouch for the change in comfort mentioned by
Tinwings. Unlike the Preserve III, the P-235 is stuffed into the
container like 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound sack. I thought it
would be a problem in the glider but it hasn't really been that bad
and I don't regret making the change.

The PD P-235 Owner's Manual is interesting reading. Particularly the
"Deployment Body Position and Airspeed" and Repack Cycle Sections.
See:http://www.performancedesigns.com/do...rve_manual.pdf

I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.

Steve

Your rigger should talk to my rigger... Look at Allen Silver's large
SMAK pack (see http://www.silverparachutes.com/smak_pak.html), this
will hold a harness/shroud cutter on the outside, fit a 406 MHz PLB
inside, and current versions have a small internal pocked to hold a
small signal mirror, "Spark-Lite" fire starter, and whistle. I use a
McMurdo PLB in mine and I believe the ACR models will fit as well.

Since I missed all the space in my long-softie to stow survival gear I
also had Allen sew three large horizontal pockets onto the inside of
the sheep skin pad on my mini-softie. The pockets have one side end
open that seals with a velcro closure These hold sectional charts/
road maps, a spare hat (I'm follically challenged), large pocket
knife, a large signal mirror, small compass, very basic first aid gear
(squishy stuff that will pack flat), allergy meds, large unfolded
space blanket, ... needs careful packing to get comfortable.

Spare eye glasses, retainer strap, cell phone, and my wallet go into
the velcro closed front pockets on my North Face cargo pants I wear
when flying. I hope that velcro stays closed if the worse ever
happens.

BTW Paraphernalia makes a "survival" parachute that has space inside
to pack survival gear, I believe they sell very few if any of them.


Cheers


Darryl

I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.

Steve

You could buy a fishing or travel vest with lots of pockets and wear
it under the parachute.

Todd

I use one of these belly bags, which has the benefit to be independant from
the parachute and roomy enough to carry the items I need.

Bert

"toad" wrote in message
...

I am also working with the rigger to come with acceptable methods to
mount survival gear, such as a PLB and other stuff, on the rig. The
last thing we came up with was to mount a pouch on the chest strap and
put everything in that. Not much room to mount things at any other
place on the harness. If anyone has recommendations for making sure
all the necessary gear bails out with you, please post them.

Steve

You could buy a fishing or travel vest with lots of pockets and wear
it under the parachute.

Todd

stashing things:
I've discovered that the SPOT fits in a pouch from the EBC model 102
121.5 / 243MHz personal ELT. Tim Mara may have these pouches. You need
to shorten the straps to have it fit on the parachute harness (I'd
already done that for the old ELT, now on e-bay), and cut a hole to
access the SPOT buttons.
Jim

Stepping down the catwalk wearing the fashionable:
Mini Softie with PD 235 ram air parachute. Thank you, Allen Silver.
or
National 360 with 24' canopy. Thanks, Larry Kreuger for the "slightly
modified" pack. The best fit in the Nimbus 3.

And who so far has only jumped out of perfectly good planes - if you
could refer to some jump zone aircraft as such.

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:BlFDj.8407$dq2.489@trndny05...
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:jQwDj.8843$2Y4.6839@trndny01...
...
The main advantage seems to be a lower descent rate of 12 feet/second,
vs the standard round emergency parachutes that have 18 feet/second. My
high school physics says it's about the difference between jumping off a
2.5 foot high ladder vs a 5 foot high ladder.


I _assume_ a better comparison would be jumping off a stationary 5 foot
ladder vs. jumping off a moving pickup truck?

I'm not sure what you mean, but what I was trying to say is a 12
feet/second descent rate is how fast you are moving after jumping from a
2.5 foot high ladder, etc. Any horizontal motion would depend on the wind
strength and which direction you were pointed relative to it.


A round 'chute doesn't fly with much horizontal velocity, but my
understanding is that for a ram air chute to work, you do need quite a bit
more forward speed to keep it inflated and to keep the descent rate under
control - hence, while the verticle velocity may be lower for the ram air
chute, I suspect the horizantal velocity will be much higher - I don't know
what the total velocity (vector sum of the horizantal and verticle) would be
for one vs. the other.

Please correct me if I am misunderstanding something.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:

hence, while the verticle velocity may be lower for the
ram air chute, I suspect the horizantal velocity will be much higher

I'm no parachute jumper, but as far as I've been informed, this is
exactly the point. Those round chutes had very limited maneuvrability.
Especially in strong wind conditions, maneuvrability is a very important
safety factor. And it comes without a draw back: those modern "square"
emergency chutes descend gently on their own even if you just keep
passivly hanging in them. So you don't *need* to actively fly them, but
you *can* if you can. They just offer more options.

Years ago, when considering purchasing an emergency parachute, I was
telling my secretary about the variables, including costs. Her very astute
response was "I don't think that you should be trying to save money when you
are buying an EMERGENCY parachute!"

Rick Hernan

"Jim Meade" wrote in message
...
I'm looking at a parachute for a glider. Would like to use it for
other flying, as well, if it is suitable. INo clue of the advantages/
disadvantages of any of them.

Suggestions?

Notes on square chutes, from my small experience with them.
First and foremost: It's necessary to have training about square
chutes (ground school or even a jump) before you buy one. Try a jump,
it's fun.
Saying there are no drawbacks is a misunderstanding.*
When a square parachute opens, the steering/brake toggles are still
in the "locked" position, which essentially trims the wing for minimum
sink. It still has forward speed, but not a lot.
If you grab and release the toggles, then release tension on them,
the wing is trimmed for maximum L/D. Now you have some forward speed.
With that forward speed and maneuverability, you have a better chance
of avoiding a mountainside, trees, power line, etc. Landing on a day
with moderate wind should be less of a concern.
Speed is controlled with the brake toggles. You fly a tight landing
pattern just like an extremely low performance glider would (think
primary), and land into the wind. A properly executed flare will
reduce your air speed to nearly zero.
Two posts list the PD235. This is a 235 square foot wing rated for
254 pound max suspended weight (too big for me at sea level, probably
not if landing at 4,000 feet or higher. It has a glide ratio of 3.5:1
with an aspect ratio of 2:1 The forward speed is about 15 or 20 MPH.
About the same as early Rogallo hang gliders!
I have done stand up landings under similar square chutes, and on
the last one kept the wing flying above my head, turned around, and
then dropped the wing to the ground. If you do that in a windy
situation, you will be more able to step downwind to deflate the wing
and avoid being dragged.
* Caveats:
If you have released the toggles and do nothing else afterwards, the
landing won't be pretty. Or worse.
If someone borrows your glider, they should not wear your square chute
unless qualified.
Jim

JS wrote:

If you have released the toggles and do nothing else afterwards, the
landing won't be pretty. Or worse.
If someone borrows your glider, they should not wear your square chute
unless qualified.

An unpretty landing with a square chute is certainly better than one
without a chute.

I wear an emergency chute to survive if I ever should need to jump out
of the glider. If then I manage to land without broken legs, I will look
at it as an extra bonus.