Airspeed of military planes

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...

I was making the point that the BUFF has an FAA waiver when taking off,
but not
landing. Trying to show how these military waivers are not always as clear
cut
as a blanket coverage.


What is the waiver for and why was it issued?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
"BUFDRVR" wrote

I was making the point that the BUFF has an FAA waiver when taking off,
but not
landing. Trying to show how these military waivers are not always as clear
cut
as a blanket coverage.


What is the waiver for and why was it issued?

Most waivers are for safety. Probably a B-52 with a good load needs all the
speed it can get on climbout.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:46:30 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote regarding the T-38:

Yup! The standard rule if I remember right was 300 kts and stay the hell
away from icing conditions!!! God, that airplane hated ice!!!!! :-))
Dudley

Things have undoubtedly changed since my last military flight, but the
applicable section of AFR 60-16 which was the governing regulation on
flight operations was that the max airspeed below 10,000 feet MSL was
250 KIAS unless the aircraft operating manual required higher. "We
don' need no steenkin' waivers."

Certainly, compliance with FARs to the maximum extent practicable was
also mandated. But in tactical aircraft, a lot of time was spent
rooting around at speeds higher than 250.

The training command T-38s really wouldn't have a lot of difficulty
with the 300 kts, but the TAC AT-38s regularly did a lot of
low-altitude tactical stuff at higher speed.

As for ice...ABSOLUTELY. I never saw an airplane that was more
sensitive to ice. The slightest bit of rime would threaten to trash
the engines. The tiny J-85 with it's very small compressor blades
wouldn't tolerate much of anything. The F-5 used a different version
of the J-85 with a gap between the front frame and first stage, plus a
heated front frame. Still didn't make it an ice gobbler, but helped a
little bit.

For that matter, you didn't even want the T-38s parked outside in a
heavy rain or hail storm. The honeycomb wing structure would dimple in
a heartbeat. Surprising that the fleet lasted as long as it did
considering the weather in West and South Texas.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:gOAQb.6579$ce2.98@okepread03...

Most waivers are for safety. Probably a B-52 with a good load needs
all the speed it can get on climbout.


But a waiver isn't needed for safety. The regulation permits an aircraft,
civil or military, to be operated at the minimum safe airspeed if the
minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the
maximum speed otherwise permitted.


§ 91.117 Aircraft speed.

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate
an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250
knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an
aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of
the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated
airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not
apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations
shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B
airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated
through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than
200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater
than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be
operated at that minimum speed.

"Glenn Westfall" wrote...
I'm an Air Force Air Traffic Controller and am currently working in
Okinawa, Japan. We have F-15's here at Kadena and it is not uncommon
for them to come back well above 400 Kts below 10,000.

How far out over the water does the 250-below-10 limit extend in Japan?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

The airspeed limitation he's referring to is found in a Federal Aviation
Regulation, which is applicable only within the US.

However, similar rules are common in other countries as well.

Sorry...actually its "Susan's husband." I was around r.a.m. occasionally
'til lightning strike on the house last September trashed the old desktop.
We just replaced it within the last month and I forgot to update the
newsgroup i.d. I'm an active duty Marine aviator.

"S. Sampson" wrote in message
news:MIAQb.6578$ce2.1440@okepread03...
"Tony Volk" wrote

Hi Susan. I don't know if I've just missed your previous posts or
not,
but I'm not familiar with your military career, and it'd be interesting
to
hear from another military pilot in these parts. So what did you fly?
For
how long? Cheers,

I think she meant she was a civilian interacting with the federal boys.

If the "Dash One" manual for the military airplane specifies a speed higher
than 250 below 10,000' it's OK to fly that fast. In the B-58 Hustler, after
takeoff we came out of afterburners at 350 KIAS and climbed at 425 KIAS
until reaching Mach .90 for climb speed. That's why other aircraft try to
stay clear of military climb corridors. We flew low level routes at 435
KIAS except for the high speed portion where we flew at 600 KIAS. (and
that's back in the 1960s)

--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Tetsuji Rai" wrote in message
s.com...
Airspeed limitation below 10000ft is usually 250kts unless you have been
authorized by the Administrator. However I guess it's a bit slow for
military fighters. So I am curious how fast military fighters fly in the
real world. I guess it's very dangerous military aircraft fly much fast
among civilian planes.

What is the waiver for and why was it issued?

Most waivers are for safety. Probably a B-52 with a good load needs all the
speed it can get on climbout.


Exactly. A BUFF at 488,000 pounds GW, below 250 KIAS would be a handful.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...

I believe *all* Military training Routes (often seen abreviated as
MTR) are waived for operations exceeding 250 KIAS.


MTRs are established for the sole purpose of military training at airspeeds
greater than 250 KIAS.