P-51's in movie "Empire of the Sun"

Jim Doyle twisted the electrons to say:
"M. H. Greaves" wrote in message
...
In the film Memphis Belle, they had a Bf109 with a Merlin engine (same
engine as in the spitfire and the P51), so they could have a mostly
genuine enemy plane (well apart from the engine).
Of course there werent any originally engined 109's available.
Just the one actually, 'Black 6' at Duxford - (has since crashed into a
field at the hands of the then CinC Strike!)

IIRC, aren't there effectively 3 "types" of 109 around?

[1] Genuine 109s - non flying since 'Black 6' got bent. :-(
[2] 'Mules' that have been fitted with a Daimler-Benz DB-605.
[3] 'Mules' using an engine other than the DB-605.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

In article , Jim Doyle
writes

i saw a film that they tried to make the F4 Phantom a russian fighter!
that
said, the chances of getting a REAL russian plane for the film would be
pretty slim!

"Ice Station Zero" - a flight of four (?) MiG-21 models turns into a
real Phantom as it overflies the submarine.

Also didn't Donald
Pleasence get shot after James Gardner crashed theirs in 'The Great Escape'?

I thought that was a Bucker Bu181 Bestmann (or a derivative), but I
might be wrong.

"Sahara" (original version) - is the 'Messerschmitt' a Mustang?
"Where Eagles Dare" - the Bell 47 playing, I guess, a Flettner Fl282?
"A Bridge Too Far" - AT-6s playing Thunderbolts and Typhoons?

--
Graeme

Currently Reading: "The Day We Bombed Switzerland" - Granholm

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JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".

Hardly. An amazing number of actual WW1 aircraft were used in early movies.
Later films used aircraft that certainly looked a lot closer to the actual
types than JN 4s. Fokkers were made from modifying early Travel Aires which
were remarkably similar to the later Fokkers even being built of steel tubing
and using elephant eared ailerons. Rotary engine types were duplicated with
radial engine aircraft and Garland Lincoln went to great efforts to duplicate
Nieuports.

John Dupre'

F-84s were used as MiGs in a couple of Korean War era movies, "Sabre
Jet" for one, IIRC. I think that in these times, movie folks would have
their pick of any Soviet a/c, by either buying or renting from any of
the former Soviet forces. I read an article once where some movie used a
B-26 painted in Jap. markings. There was some Czech, IIRC, movie about
30 odd years ago that used a C-47/DC-3 modified to look like a
Wellington. I read it in an old Air Int. or Enthusiast. Also, IIRC, in
"The Great Escape", the a/c in question was Bucker Bu-?? or its later
built Czech version. The German fighters parked at the airfield were
AT-6s. I also recall a movie back in he '70s that used AT-6s/SNJs to
represent FW-190s & P-47s. ISTR the rear section of canopies were
removed & replaced with a 'razorback' sort of fairing & painted
appropriately. Don't forget the Pumas modified to look like Hind Ds in
"Red Dawn" & later less modified in a "Rambo" movie.

..... a C-47/DC-3 modified to look like a Wellington.

Wow! I can't imagine anything more difficult than that!

vince norris

And it looks like a Wellington even!

I have a paperback book called "Battle of Britain" the making of a
film. It's by Leonard Mosley and is about all the tricks they used to
make the movie Battle of Britain. It's one of the most interesting I
have.

Van Gardner

Stephen Harding wrote in message ...
Cub Driver wrote:

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

This makes me wonder just what sort of "modifications" are
typically done by Hollywood to create actual flying aircraft
no longer in existence, or just not available to fly.

Obviously, the main "trick" is simply paint the aircraft in
the correct national markings. Thus a P-51 becomes an Me 109,
an AT-6 a Zero (seems the most common role for a Texan in a
movie). Some F-86s can become "Migs", and I vaguely recall
a C-47 becoming a G4M Betty at one time.

JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".

I believe in "Memphis Belle" a B-17G was converted to an F by
actual removal of the nose turret. Addition of a tail cone
to make an AT-6 into a Zero seems more than necessary, but
some directors are detail focused.

Then of course there are "faux warbird" props. Even during
WWII when the real thing might have been available, you often
see some dummied up aircraft. I think John Wayne in "Flying
Tigers" had some plywood P-40s with propellers that would
lazily spin trying to imitate a squadron cranking up for an
intercept. I think the BoB TV movie "Piece of Cake" used
some dummied up Spits for ground scenes as well. Didn't some
of them spin props too?

Of course with the increasing power of F/X in movies, you can
now film formations worth of Me 262s attacking B-24s or
whatever. The need for the actual warbird is pretty much gone.


SMH

including the exploding cardboard hirri's???
"Van Gardner" wrote in message
om...
I have a paperback book called "Battle of Britain" the making of a
film. It's by Leonard Mosley and is about all the tricks they used to
make the movie Battle of Britain. It's one of the most interesting I
have.

Van Gardner

Stephen Harding wrote in message
...
Cub Driver wrote:

Great movie, by the way--Empire of the Sun, I mean. But did you notice
that the entire tail section of the "Zero" turned? Probably it was an
AT-6 with a pointy tail cone pasted on.

This makes me wonder just what sort of "modifications" are
typically done by Hollywood to create actual flying aircraft
no longer in existence, or just not available to fly.

Obviously, the main "trick" is simply paint the aircraft in
the correct national markings. Thus a P-51 becomes an Me 109,
an AT-6 a Zero (seems the most common role for a Texan in a
movie). Some F-86s can become "Migs", and I vaguely recall
a C-47 becoming a G4M Betty at one time.

JN-4 "Jennies" served as German and British/US fighters in the
WWI movies of the 20's and 30's. Just a splash of paint and
a roundel made it a Sopwith Camel, or a black cross and it was
a "Fokker".

I believe in "Memphis Belle" a B-17G was converted to an F by
actual removal of the nose turret. Addition of a tail cone
to make an AT-6 into a Zero seems more than necessary, but
some directors are detail focused.

Then of course there are "faux warbird" props. Even during
WWII when the real thing might have been available, you often
see some dummied up aircraft. I think John Wayne in "Flying
Tigers" had some plywood P-40s with propellers that would
lazily spin trying to imitate a squadron cranking up for an
intercept. I think the BoB TV movie "Piece of Cake" used
some dummied up Spits for ground scenes as well. Didn't some
of them spin props too?

Of course with the increasing power of F/X in movies, you can
now film formations worth of Me 262s attacking B-24s or
whatever. The need for the actual warbird is pretty much gone.


SMH

I was watching "Empire of the Sun" the other night and near the end some
P-51's attack the Japanese base. What struck me was that the P-51's were
flying in just a few feet above the ground and dropping their bombs. Would
this really have been done?

Marine crunchies in the Pacific and in Korea used to say they could
tell if an F4U was being flown by a married man, bescause they pulled
out at 20 feet agl instead of 10.

How did the planes keep from blowing themselves up?

We used to sing a song at Happy Hour at the O Club about an
unfortunate pilot whose bombs were set for tenth of a second delay,
instead of the proper 10 seconds.

I can recall that one line was, "An F4U without a tail won't fly."

The chorus went something like:

"Ten thousand dollars going home to the folks.
Won't they be delighted!
Won't the be excited!
Think of all the things that they can buy!"

I hope that answers your question, Dan; and if anyone can remember the
entire lyrics, I'd be grateful to see them posted, for my senile mind
can no longer recall them.

vince norris