Flanker vs F-15

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
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"monkey" wrote in message
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
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"Steve" wrote in message
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On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"
wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,
that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5) you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18 (AV6)
had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.

move the stick for what?

The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

"monkey" wrote in message
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
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"monkey" wrote in message
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
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"monkey" wrote in message
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
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"Steve" wrote in message
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On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"

wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,
that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick
above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5)
you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more
g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18
(AV6) had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.

move the stick for what?

The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
m...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 02:44:04 -0600, "Boomer"

wrote:

yes Flankers have a switch which over rides the FBW limits,
that's
the
only
way they can do the "Cobra" manuever.

Or you can simply apply an extra 33lb of stick force.

That is a lot, the F/A-18 breaks out at 20 lbs.

Not true - you are confusing this with aoa feedback in the stick
above
20 alpha -to get more g than the programmed limiter (usually 7.5)
you
must engage the paddle switch, which will then give you 33% more
g.

I am refering to the force required to move the stick. My F-18
(AV6) had a
swich on the left panel to cut out the FCS much like the MiG.

move the stick for what?

The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails. Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.

"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.

Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.

I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.

Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.

I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)

OK, now I see where you are coming from - academically. It's taken
awhile for me to see your viewpoint. Operationally, one never uses any
mode except for CAS - there's no need to unless it craps out or you
get battle damage resulting in it. Referring to the checklist, DEL ON,
MECH ON, FCS CAUT, AIL OFF, FC AIR DAT, FCS HOT, FLAPS OFF, FLAP
SCHED, R LIM OFF, RUD OFF are all considered EMERGENCY situations and
are dealt with as such. I guess the test pilot dudes might play around
with that sort of stuff, but never the line guys.

"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
"monkey" wrote in message
om...


The stick moves to operate the cable actuated system control
system.

Do you know the airplane at all, monkey sock?

I'm actually talking about CAS - the only FCS configuration you
would
EVER fight the Hornet in - not DEL or MECH modes.

I take it you never flew the airplane.

you know what- I' don't need to justify what I've done to some wannabe
clown- if you've flown it you would know that all the DEL modes
(analog, digital, etc)and MECH are backup modes only for when the CAS
system fails.

Or when CAS is switched out. Which is the way an F-18 can do a cobra
like a
Flanker.

Besides, I'm on this board for entertainment purposes
only - the one I read for real professional discussion, you can't get
on unless you can prove you're a military pilot. I noticed you're not
on it Tarver.

I did however design the HARV simulator at NASA and I am well aware of
how
an F/A-18 works. (first accurate F/A-18 simulator)

OK, now I see where you are coming from - academically. It's taken
awhile for me to see your viewpoint. Operationally, one never uses any
mode except for CAS - there's no need to unless it craps out or you
get battle damage resulting in it. Referring to the checklist, DEL ON,
MECH ON, FCS CAUT, AIL OFF, FC AIR DAT, FCS HOT, FLAPS OFF, FLAP
SCHED, R LIM OFF, RUD OFF are all considered EMERGENCY situations and
are dealt with as such. I guess the test pilot dudes might play around
with that sort of stuff, but never the line guys.

The line guys need to know the emergency procedure of breaking the stick out
in order to be safe. The fact that you are still disputing that seems odd
to me.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

I take it you never flew the airplane.

....and I take it you never flew an airplane.

"Ken Duffey" wrote:


The internal fuel load of a Su-27 Flanker is 9,400kg, on the F-15C it s
5,950kg (or 6,103 depending on source), the F-18 is 4,900kg.

Range without drop tanks is 3,680km for the Su-27, 1,970km for the F-15C &
2,200 for the F-18.

It should be noted that the Su-27 is G-limited with a
full fuel load. Some of the internal tanks are not designed for
manoeuver when full.


--
--Matthew Saroff

I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

"John Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

I take it you never flew the airplane.

...and I take it you never flew an airplane.

I flew the simulator, which puts me ahead of either of you WRT how the
operator inputs work. Monkey was playing a little game and got caught, but
I have never been one to believe pilots know how airplanes work. That would
be silly.

Of course these days the civil side of the system is beginning to drive out
operator ignorance. It is something that should have been done long ago.

Mary Shafer wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:04:59 -0000, "Ken Duffey"
wrote:

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message

I read this in one of the British aircraft magazines a few years back,
in an article comparing the F-18 with the similar Russian airplane.
At least once and a half as much fuel internal to the Hornet and the
author made the comment that the US had, historically, always carried
more internal fuel in its fighters, citing WW II aircraft numbers as
well.

Mary, you are WAY out on this one.

Yes, but only because I believed a seemingly reliable source.

As I was typing the remark about big countries it did cross my mind
that the USSR wasn't exactly small. And that using ground controllers
might not work in the more remote areas.

Oh, well. There's half my quota for the year.

Yes, the Flanker has a lot of internal fuel, more than the F-18 or
F-15. Reports to the contrary are wrong.

Mary


The F15 has those conformal fastpacks on the sides of the intakes that
effectively raise the fuel level.